Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
Look, you don't seem to get the idea here! If you see a NEED, and
are so smart to be able to solve the problem for everyone, WRITE
IT YOURSELF and submit it to Debian!
Furthermore, saying its NOT is the documentation is just totatlly
wrong! If you chose NOT to install the HOWTO'S or INFO, thats
your problem AND not the guys that put it all together. Have you
read the Net and Serial HOWTO'S? OR, GASP! the PPP HOWTO?
Linux, any of the distributions, comes with enough doc to keep you
busy, and make you real smart, if you just take the time to look at
it! Its all there man, all of it. Saying its not is like saying the sun
isn't gonna come up tomorrow because Debian is so screwed up or
PPP is at fault for aids for Pete's sake!
If you want it to be 'easy' just go back to uSlop, and let them take
away all the options and make all your decisions for you! If you
don't want to learn what makes it tick, and find your problem, then
you'll fit right in with their philosophy.
Paul
>they cheated and asked a friend).
>
>It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even
>included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access
>to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages.
>Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance
>to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files
>to edit). Now *that's* intuitive.
>
>Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features,
>but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution.
>
>Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me
>that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to
>know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some
>tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the
>Debian machine.
>
>I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made
>aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should
>go get the .deb files.... and that, when he's feeling brave, he should
>get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some
>deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install
>them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M.
>So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was
>going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made
>aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from
>him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!!!!!".
>
>The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had
>won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job
>at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time
>Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long
>as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help
>point you in the right direction.
>
>And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to,
>I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a
>problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial.
>
>- Joe
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