Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Craig Sanders wrote:
>
> 1. what do you expect for free?
Well, one would expect at least a clean install... If people perceive
Linux/Debian as being impossible to install, then, well, they won't use it
:) And if people don't use an OS, well, that's just bad for people in
general..
>
> 2. if you have a problem then you are more likely to get help by
> sticking to the technical issues rather than starting things off by
> saying how crappy & useless & broken debian is.
>
Hmmmm... if people don't likes something in Debian, they have every
right to bitch about it. If you don't like what people are saying, ignore
them.
> We know debian isn't perfect. If you have constructive suggestions
> to make, then make them, but don't expect everyone to jump
> immediately and say "yes master! at once, master!".
So I suppose you become the touchstone on what is appropriate and
inappropriate?:) My, my, how fascinating...
>
> If you can improve things, then work on improving them - debian
> development is OPEN. The distinction between debian developers and
> debian users is not very clear-cut.
It would help if the person could get it installed in the first place...
>
> If you have flames, then keep them to yourself (or save them for
> some commercial software support line)
If one has the need to flame, flame away. Just be aware you'll get flamed
back :) Linux is based on the concept of open dialog. If you don't like
it, bitch, moan, etc. You have the right, nobody should intimidate another
just because "they have more experience." :) You might not get help or be
well liked, but if everyone in the Linux community agreed with everyone
and everything, then that would be detrimental to the Linux community
as a whole.
>
> Nobody decides to "...throw the user to the lions..." on this or
> any other poing in debian. Package developer's are only human (and
> they're volunteers...some even have real lives outside of computers
> and the net and debian)...they CANT think of and cater for every
> situation. If you, or any user, has constructive suggestions to make
> then make them.
Yes, but sloppy programming, packaging ought to be flamed. It keeps people
on their toes :)
>
>
> A fair amount of DIY attitude is needed if you want to run a unix
Who made you god and decide who can and can't run a Unix system? Total
morons can run Linux systems, ask dumb questions, get flamed, etc. etc.
But that shouldn't keep them from trying :) It's free, it's there for
everybody.
> system. This is especially true for someone who calls themselves a
> "SysAdmin" and an ISP. There's a lot more to the job than just the
> title. An ISP who doesn't understand PPP and who is unwilling to
> read documentation ("But I shouldn't have to.") is one who i would
Well, if he feels like Linux should be totally automatic, he has every
right to voice his opinions on it. I personally would like an easier to
administrate Unix. I'm sure a lot of people can do without the rigamarole
of learning cryptic commands.
>
> 5. debian-user is a much more pleasant mailing list without all the
> flames. I suggest that everyone ignore any further posts from
> you until you learn some manners.
It would also be a lot less interesting...
>
> 6. I donate my time to try to help out people on this mailing list for
> free. I do this sort of support for a living, and spending time
> helping out in here is one of my ways of putting some energy back
> into debian.
Ohohohoh, and we're supposed to be prostrating before you then? "Oh great
guru of Linux, can you answer my question?"
help != instant gratification
Your reasons are of course, your own biz :)
>
> I'm a volunteer and dont have to put up with such shit. Contact
> me for my standard consulting rates if you want any further email
> support from me.
then don't...
>
> 7. You get what you pay for. caveat emptor.
What a bunch of BS :) By your reasoning we should be having a great OS
with Win95, and a really lousy one with Linux.
Happy flaming!!!
Will
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Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:55:52 +1100
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:55:52 +1100 (EST)
From: Craig Sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
To: Scott Stanley <sstanley@ames.ucsd.edu>
cc: John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>, debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: lprm says "Permission denied" (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <[🔎] Pine.HPP.3.91.970303104155.11275A-100000@mustang.ucsd.edu>
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On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Scott Stanley wrote:
> I have switched back to regular lpr myself. I tried lprng briefly, but
> the errors I was getting didn't make any sense to me at all, so I just
> switched back to regular lpr. I still haven't fixed my lpr problem, but
> I think I am getting closer.
>
> Basically, what is happening is that when I print a file, the printer
> starts up but all that comes out is a blank page. I know there is still
> a line feed problem (as there is initially with many printers), but the
> file I am printing has text on the first line that should show fine. I
> have worked through the printing HowTo, but I haven't managed to figure
> this one out.
>
> When I print a file, it is getting sent to the spool directory just
> fine, but somewhere between there and the printer, all the data is being
> lost......
try installing magic-filter - it makes printing a breeze...just throw
(nearly) any sort of file at it and it will know what filters to use to
get it to print. the install program for debian's magic-filter package
can even set up your /etc/printcap for you.
If you still can't print, then edit the config files for samba, lprng,
and magic-filter to increase the debugging level so you can trace what's
going on (by default log messages are quite terse)
craig
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