Re: Why is PPP so screwed up!?!?!
It seems obvious to many of us, but not to the real newbie, so why
not make the installation program display a large banner before going into
dselect that advises the new user to look in /usr/doc. The Debian README
for ppp discusses pon and friends at length.
Bob
At 07:54 PM 3/1/97 PST, CoB SysAdmin (Joe Emenaker)
<jemenake@lab.busfac.calpoly.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > It's really not so damn difficult to be honest, but the first time or two
>> > it might seem daunting.
>>
>> Why not try to make it less daunting? Is it supposed to be some sort of a
>> rite of passage?
>
>Exactly! I keep seeing posts from people who say "All I did was
>'cat /usr/bin/pon' and went and edited "/etc/ppp.chatscript.". Well, tell me,
>where in the Debian installation guide
>(ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian/stable/disks-i386/current/install.html) does it
>mention "pon" (or even "ppp" for that matter)? In fact, show me where in
>the installation guide it even makes reference to ANY other document that
>refers to "pon" or "ppp". This leads to the question: How many hyperlinks
>deep do I need to go before I find out how to install Debian?
>
>Second, why should someone have to "cat /usr/bin/pon" to find out to
>edit /etc/ppp.chatscript anyway? I mean, I have to say that the Debian
>installation routine is so simple it's silly. So why doesn't it just go
>that one extra yard and ask a simple question like "Will this system be
>connected to the net via a PPP connection?" and then let me specify
>which com port and what the dialup number/login-id/password are? Even the
>people who claim that "ppp was a breeze" admit that they had to hunt
>around a little before they found the right files to edit (either that or
>they cheated and asked a friend).
>
>It's silly. There's no mention in the installation guide that ppp is even
>included in the base system, or that someone with only dial-in access
>to the net can use ppp with dselect's ftp method to add new packages.
>Instead, you get tossed into dselect without even being given the chance
>to get ppp going for the first time (even if you *did* know the files
>to edit). Now *that's* intuitive.
>
>Don't get me wrong, Debian is great and it's got some really cool features,
>but those features are not made apparent to a newcomer to the distribution.
>
>Here's an example. A buddy of mine in San Francisco recently e-mailed me
>that he had just installed Debian (his first Linux) and that he needed to
>know how to read a DOS floppy because he had used Win95 to download some
>tar'd and gzip'd msql source or whatnot and wanted to copy it onto the
>Debian machine.
>
>I explained to him the Debian packaging system (which he hadn't been made
>aware of in the docs he read or the install program)... and how he should
>go get the .deb files.... and that, when he's feeling brave, he should
>get ppp going and use dselect. So, he went and ftp'd (with Win95) some
>deb's and copied them over to the Debian machine and used dpkg to install
>them. Then, he got gcc and was stuck because it was bigger than a 1.44M.
>So, I told him that it was time for the "rite of passage", that he was
>going to have to go with ppp and dselect (which, again, he was not made
>aware of). It took about 3-4 days of e-mails before I got a message from
>him with the subject "I'M ACTUALLY DOWNLOADING WITH DSELECT!!!!!".
>
>The ordeal shouldn't be such that it would cause him to act like he had
>won the lottery. I guess my point is that Debian is not doing a good job
>at embracing the "first-time linuxer" and probably even the "first-time
>Debian linuxer". As a result, Debian is THE thing to be running as long
>as you've got a friend who has installed it before who will help
>point you in the right direction.
>
>And it doesn't have to be that way. I'd be glad to help... but in order to,
>I need at least SOME indication from others that they agree there's a
>problem here. Up until now, all I've heard is denial.
>
>- Joe
>
Reply to: