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[OFF TOPIC]Re: X is painful

Is there a debian-talk list?  This is surely a candidate.

>     Bill> So far the 'differences' have primarily been comprised of
>     Bill> just plain crappy UI.  Some apps let you double-click to
>     Bill> select a word, some don't.  Some let you triple-click to
>     Bill> select a paragraph, some don't.  Some tab between fields,
>     Bill> some don't.  Some have point to focus within individual
>     Bill> fields [tkman comes to mind], some don't.  During editing,
>     Bill> some are bright enough to realize the user likely doesn't
>     Bill> want to lose focus on the field until they take some action
>     Bill> to end editing (ie; partial modality), most are not.

It seems that the real problem is that the whole world doesn't
agree with you.  If everybody would just listen to you, we
wouldn't have this problem, right?

I'd rather be able to configure this behavior on a case by case
basis.  If there were a set of UI behaviors identified in this
manner that could be offered as a set of configurable options,
with perhaps some canned default option sets, I'd go for it.
Outside of that, I don't think this is as big an issue as you're
making it.  Maybe I'm just not that uptight.

>     Bill> As well, now that OpenStep is being distributed by Sun [as
>     Bill> well as NeXT] and the GnuStep project is progressing nicely,
>     Bill> it will hopefully make inroads into more of the academic and
>     Bill> scientific computing centers.

Just as long as it stays out of the Real World.  We have a couple
of Next boxes here and I can't think of a goofier, uglier GUI.
I'm not a GUI programmer, so maybe its a neato devel platform,
but 99.999999% of people using computers aren't writing GUIs.

>     Bill> Regardless, whether or not OpenStep actually survives
>     Bill> through the end of this century, any developer who is
>     Bill> working on generic user interface coding projects-- such as
>     Bill> a window manager or process manager-- who has studied and
>     Bill> understood what NeXT has achieved is wasting their time.

Again, I'm not a developer, but NeXT seems to have achieved
virtual bankrupcy.  Where's the lesson there?  You know I've had
plenty of great ideas too.  The problem is that most of them
sucked.  Sort of like the NeXT interface.

>     Bill> NEXTSTEP/OpenStep is likely the single best example of
>     Bill> object oriented programming on a large scale in the
>     Bill> industry.  The APIs are clean.  The various frameworks work
>     Bill> together transparently.  Portability is *not* an issue
>     Bill> [except when importing/exporting data].  Nothing touches it.
>     Bill> Period.

Great.  Another computer environment JUST for programmers.

>     Bill> So far, all signs indicate that software deployed within the
>     Bill> X community has made the same mistakes over and over....

Thats no reason to panic start thinking that NeXT step is the
answer!  I don't pretend to know the Right Thing to do, but I
sure don't wish NeXT on anyone.

The best thing I can think of doing in a GUI is offering the user
the ability to configure it.  Thats a whole lot more attainable
than building THE GUI to beat all GUIs an forcing it on everyone.

Just my $.02

Richard G. Roberto
011-81-3-3437-7967 - Tokyo, Japan

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