Re: what's up with xterm?
Ok guys, lets go a little more easy on Branden. After all, he has done an
excellent job with X, and he has a cool name :-) There is nothing wrong
that I can see with the current setup of the $TERM setting. What we are
asking is for an extra option during the install to allow the user to do
the "wrong" thing. If you don't understand why we use xterm-debian,
please read
http://master.debian.org/~branden/xsf.html
On Fri, 20 Nov 1998, Arrigo Triulzi wrote:
> I am sorry but how on Earth am I supposed to add wrappers to every
> user's remote account which, in a University is liable to span all
> continents, operating systems and languages?
I didn't recommend that you do this. I said I would because it is the way
I like things. I'm using a debian supported config and accessing remote
systems without hassle. If you have never used CDE or other strange unix
X windows setups, you should check the other message on this subject,
which basically states that xterm-debian is a semi-norm to the degree that
we aren't using xterm. I'm using CDE right now and know exactly what that
poster is metioning.
> Objectively the default should be that remote logins work, full stop.
I object. Remote logins do work with a little hassle, and xterm-debian
fixes some bugs that cause more of a hassle to the user than remote logins
do, at least in my opinion.
> How can I hand around a Debian 2.1 for people to install with some
> peace of mind?
If you are giving people Debian linux to administer, but you don't want to
explain what things like a .profile file is, you are asking for problems.
> I would have to explain to every one of them to change to their settings
> (incidentally, the location of the defaults file has changed between 2.0
> and 2.1, is this wise for a minor version?)?
Explaining how to change settings for one areas setup is the norm, not the
exception. Granted, this is one setting that would be nice not to change,
but giving them no idea of how to configure a system for your local setup
is bad idea.
> I understand that there was loads of discussion and, as correctly
> pointed out by Branden there is a lot of ignorance, including mine, but
> can we please stop a second and think about more far-fetching
> consequences than the local machine and our own personal accounts? I
> have rooms of terminals running Debian... Do we really have to answer
> millions of `Why does it say "unknown terminal type"?' questions?
> Shouldn't the default be that it works and the "smart user's option"
> the super-duper xterm-debian option?
This has already been considered. My understanding of it is that we can't
change the settings for TERM=xterm, because all definitions of xterm on
all setups of a unix-like system must be the same. So, if we want to fix
things, we need an xterm-debian. And, if we want users to see these
fixes, we need to make xterm-debian the default.
> Incidentally, we might have abandoned the XFree86 xterm but this new
> one for sure isn't doing well with visual bell, at least on my
> systems.
Please see http://www.debian.org/Bugs for instructions on filing a bug
report. I can't verify this from remote, but perhaps it will work when I
get back to my system tomorrow evening. Note that if this bug existed in
xterm, I don't believe we could fix it.
> Please do consider not only making a system which "complies with the
> Debian Backspace policy" but also which works with the rest of the
> world. Or are we trying to copy the M$ "extend and embrace"
> technology?
Please avoid the low blows.
Thank you,
Brandon
+--- ---+
| Brandon Mitchell * bhmit1@mail.wm.edu * http://bhmit1.home.ml.org/ |
| Sometimes you have to release software with bugs. - MS Recruiter |
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