Hi everybody, I did not read the entire thread and it's not entirely clear if you are seeking specific input of mine (if this is the case, please say so). So let me just clarify a couple of points that might be useful to your discussion. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:38:15AM +0200, Luca Capello wrote: > > In particular, "on behalf of" gives the suggestion that it is holding > > assets for a third party > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > FTR, there is no *legal* third party given that AFAIK Debian as an > official association does not exist. Correct. Or, to be more precise, under *many jurisdictions* Debian as a project has no juridical existence, even though some jurisdictions around the world might acknowledge it. > > - someone makes a donation to the association: asset of debian.ch - but > > of course, debian.ch can choose to use this money for the Debian project > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > If I read correctly the Debian Constitution v1.4, this is only possible > if the donation is specifically marked with a "also for non-Debian > stuff", see § 9.2.2: On this, there are two aspects that intertwine. The Debian Constitution and the by-laws of the involved organization (which you're discussion, AFAICT). From the point of view of Debian, and by default, i.e. before any kind of blanket authorizations are considered, we expect to have a clearly defined set of asset that the organization holds for Debian. On that set, the decision authority is Debian through the DPL as its representative. It is Debian who decides what to do with that stuff and it is the organization who executes those decisions. This way of functioning is fundamental to maintain the "trust" relationship between Debian and the organization. Theoretically, I can imagine scenarios where Debian asks the organization to use the assets for purposes that go against the organization mission and bylaws, resulting in the organization refusing to do so. That would most likely cause the severing of the trust relationship between Debian and the organization. Practically, I cannot imagine any such scenario for any organization devoted to pursue Debian and/or Free Software related goals. Last but not least, the above does not mean that *all* organization assets are under Debian control. Several of the current Debian Trusted Organization act as umbrella organization for many Free Software projects. There, the notion of trust is resolved by clearly defined whose assets, within the larger set of organization assets, are owned on behalf of Debian, thanks to some internal accounting. Debian claims no ownership / control of any other assets than those. Whether this kind of division (Debian assets vs other assets) is acceptable for debian.ch is up to you, of course. Debian would appreciate if debian.ch says that all its assets are Debian's, but that is by no means a requirement to keep on being a Trusted Organization. Nor I see the fact that debian.ch has been granted usage of the Debian trademark as implying that all debian.ch assets should be under Debian control. On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 01:47:00AM +0200, Daniel Pocock wrote: > - From www.debian.org: "Debian is a registered trademark > <http://www.debian.org/trademark> of Software in the Public Interest, Inc. " > > Someone could argue that Debian is therefore a trading name or business > name of SPI, and therefore SPI is the legal entity. I feel it is better > to make such things clear rather than leaving it for someone to dispute > in the future. That is not correct. SPI is *a* legal entity, which happens to own *some* of Debian assets, including (some of) our trademarks. That makes SPI no special entity wrt Debian and in the future the owner of those assets can change. > > --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- > > 9. Assets held in trust for Debian <snip> > This seems messy to me: a real trust must have a beneficiary, and a > beneficiary may need to have some legal status of it's own. It might be messy, but at present it's just the way it is and AFAIK there are no plans at present to change those points of the Debian Constitution. Hope this helps, Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} . o . Maître de conférences ...... http://upsilon.cc/zack ...... . . o Debian Project Leader ....... @zack on identi.ca ....... o o o « the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »
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