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Re: Debian services and Debian infrastructure


Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen@err.no> writes:

> ]] Lucas Nussbaum 
>> > > 3. to provide a place to experiment with new services
>> > >    + create a "Debian cloud" with virtual machines to develop new services
>> > >      (maybe providing manually-created VMs would be enough -- I'm not sure we 
>> > >      need a complex infra such as OpenStack).
>> > 
>> > In general, we're quite happy to create VMs for people when they show up
>> > with a service they want to deploy, so I think this is quite well covered.
>> It's great that you are quite happy to create VMs for people when they
>> show up with a service they want to deploy.
>> But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm seeking a solution for people
>> who show up with an *idea* they want to *experiment* with. Because:
>> 1) that's when they should engage with DSA so that you have a chance to
>>    review/participate in the design, not months later when an unofficial
>>    service is up and running;
> They don't need a VM to do this, though.
>> 2) the alternative is that they give up on the idea, or host it
>>    themselves, which makes it harder to work collaboratively on the
>>    service, and results in services that have a single maintainer (or
>>    none, in the end).
> How does having a random VM running in a cloud somewhere make that
> service easier to integrate into the wider debian.org setup?  I don't
> think it does; what does is the first point: talk to us so we can figure
> out what works for both sides.  Especially given you want to give root
> to developers on those VMs, there's absolutely nothing that points in a
> direction of those VMs being more integrateable than a service developed
> on a developer's own laptop (in a VM or in their regular environment).

Regarding facilitating the experiments by DDs on new system prototypes,
I guess that having a VM with a public IP, connected to the Web makes a
real difference, when you want to do Web development, and need to
demonstrate it to fellow debianers (and other parties).

Not necessarily with an IP bound to debian.org of course, and debian.net
is there for this very need AFAIU.

So IMHO the availability of cloud VMs for people to experiment with (and
with root privileges), and on debian.net would be a plus.

Now, of course that doesn't mean that the prototypes installed there
will be ready for production on DSA managed machines runing stable and
with of course every dependencies in real packages. 

But that's another problem, about communicating with DSA early
enough... and I'm not sure I know where to find the right contact point
/ procedure ATM. 

I'm still not sure if posting on debian-services-admin@l.d.o is a
potential way to make sure some educated colleagues (even DSA members)
will be able to advice, review, and generally help service prototypes
become production-ready.

My 2 cents,
Olivier BERGER 
http://www-public.telecom-sudparis.eu/~berger_o/ - OpenPGP-Id: 2048R/5819D7E8
Ingenieur Recherche - Dept INF
Institut Mines-Telecom, Telecom SudParis, Evry (France)

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