Re: mouse problem
On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Pavel Epifanov wrote:
> --- Victor Wagner <vitus@ice.ru> wrote:
> > Потому что на машине где нет X-ов, обычно вообще не работают. Поэтому
> > переводить туда мышь с колесиком жалко. Дорогая слишком.
>
> Victor, I disagree with you.
> For the most of day-to-day operations one do not need a GUI.
> Starting from mail readers to browsing Internet.
> IMHO lynx + pine + mc + ncftp + other_console_tools just perfect for most of
> task. Especially I like the speed they are operates at.
Probably, I have another definition for "most day-to-day operations"
I don't think that browsing internet is so important, but I include into
"most day-to-day operation" writing documents (for this you need a GUI
for proof-reading, like xdvi), reading documentation (which often means
pdf) and working with graphics (mostly vector one, but occasionally
scanned)
For this tasks GUI is unavoidable.
But most important thing is that X is not only GUI. Its primary value that
it is window system, which allows you to see output of several programs
simulateously, and switch input focus between them arbitrarily.
Also, it allows to organize your workplace.
My typical desktop usially contains from four to ten xterms on various
machines and couple of graphic apps, not counting desktop gadgets like
ICQ.
Virtual consoles doesn't help in this case, becouse they do not allow to
see edited source documentation and results of test run at the same time.
Most closest things to windowing system in text mode I've ever seen was
emacs and xwpe. Each of them has its own defficiences. I was quite
surpised that XEmacs shell buffer reveals ssh passphrase.
But typical console usially contains no more than 132x43 charater cells,
which is not enough for full-blown windowing system.
In X, even you use large font (such as 10x20) for editable texts, nothing
prevents you from presenting less-important information, such as make logs
in smaller font, which allow you to fit much more info on the screen.
Don't underestimate readability of graphic presentation of info, such as
xload.
> You could not escape from the fact that for pretty picture from GUI you have to
> pay by space, speed and hardware price.
I think that productivity costs this price.
> > Но при цене нормального 17-дюймового
> > монитора в 250 долларов что-то не хочется без оконной системы обходиться.
>
> I run now Potato on PII-233/192 MB computer with 17" monitor. It is fast and
> nice. From other side 17" for real graphic application IMHO is not enough, 19"
> or 21" is better.
It depends of the pixel size. If your monitor is 0.24mm granularity,
it is enough. And 19" just wouldn't fit on my desk.
Really, resolution is what is matter, not the size of screen. My notebook
with 12" LCD does 1024x768 better than most 15" CRTs
> > Опять же дока нынче преимущественно в pdf.
>
> Or in HTML, which is OK for virtual consoles ...
Html docs usially have very bad navigation.
And how would you see for
instance, SQL syntax diagrams on console?
Of course, pdf (and texinfo) docs really belongs to paper. But often I'm
too lazy to print 900pages document out.
> I only use mouse with text console to copy/paste the text.
> Lets keep wheel for GUI applications, OK?
This is what I've tell in the very first letter in this thread.
Don't waste a wheel mouse for machine, where no GUI apps are used.
May be my argumentation was not acceptable for you, but conclusion
was the same.
--
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Chief Technical Officer Office:7-(095)-748-53-88
Communiware.Net Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
http://www.communiware.net http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
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