Re: Etch timeline is unrealistic because non-free firmware is NOT being dealt with
On Sat, Aug 12, 2006 at 12:46:18AM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 06:14:08PM +0200, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> >> Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> writes:
> >> >> Where people buy their hardware or how free their hardware is has
> >> >> little to do with Debian main. It is a problem for the linux upostream
> >> >> authors to support the hardware with free source code and sometimes
> >> >> they fail.
> >> >
> >> > Indeed. but when you mention GPL violation, it means that you are not allowed
> >> > to distribute the whole linux kernel, even in non-free.
> >>
> >> Hence the need to fix them.
> >
> > Indeed, and this was done for tg3/broadcom, and the qlsomething ones. Those
> > files are now correctly licenced, but are still non-free, and it is this
> > second issue that we are discussing here.
>
> And actualy just recently the first one was uploaded to non-free
> including udebs:
>
> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/f/firmware-non-free/
>
> Now the DAK must be configured to create a
> dists/sid/non-free/debian-installer/ subdir and index files for the
> udebs. But I feel we are already one step closer to the goal.
>
> Step 1: Create non-free udebs. *checked*
> Step 2: Add DAK config *waiting for ftp-masters*
> Step 3: Add D-I support
I would propose something even more advanced, and not put the kernel .udebs
into the main debian-installer thing, but into a separate section.
The way i envision this, we would create a debian/sid/main|non-free/kernel
section, where the kernel .udebs would be hold, and we start building them
from the main kernel package.
Ideally, we would go a step further, and have
debian/sid/main|non-free/kernel/<flavour> sections, so we can split the kernel
.udeb packages in a finer grain, and each running installer will only be
seeing the modules corresponding to the kernel flavour he is running.
This was my proposal from the start, and if you think down to it, it is the
best solution for all the kernel/d-i related problems, and would allow to
complete the work started with the common packaging, into a solution where
there will be only a single package build, easily doable on the usual buildd
network, will allow the most flexible solution for abi bumps and security
upgrades.
But then, i was not able to complete these ideas, due to my mothers illness
and death, and the inexcusable behaviour of the d-i folk, frans at the
foremost of them. They prefer to keep the status quo, and do lot of work, and
complain about abi changes, as well as being able to blame the "lazy porters"
(direct quotation of joey hess) for any problem. This is the thing which led
me in clash with them. They perfectly knew about various d-i brokeness in the
buildd, chose not to say anything to the porters, and because i was not attent
enough to the issue to notice immediately, because i was at my mothers
ill-bed, they chose to bash me and subsequently kick me out.
This is the worse behaviour that i have seen from any DD so far, even jonathan
and even Andrew had more decent behaviour than this, and the worse of this is
that none of the others involved, not evben the DPL, have found anything wrong
with this behaviour, or at least dared to say something about it, in fear to
that frans would be pissed and leave, and they would miss the work he has been
doing on d-i.
So, you see, if i am angry and hurt, and you dislike me repeating it always,
you know who to blame.
> >> You can always write patches and send them to the BTS. If you fear
> >> retribution by Frans then go that way and get a fellow kernel team
> >> member to commit the changes. I feel for you and know that that is
> >> awkward but that is how it is currently. If your desire to help is
> >> greater than the obstacles then stick with it.
> >
> > I will only go this way so far, but someday, i will fork d-i, and declare them
> > obsolet, and do my stuff as i see fit, and let them the hurdle to catch up if
> > they like.
> >
> > Friendly,
> >
> > Sven Luther
>
> Luckily Debian is about free software so you can do that. But please
> just do and not repeat the story and fork thread over and over. Even I
> get sick of it and I liked you when we happened to meet in person.
Yeah, but notice that if the d-i team had not chosen to kick me out while i
was hurt and crying for the death of my mother, none of this would be
happening, and we would all code happily thereafter. I asked the DPL to
mediate this, but the only conclusion was that i should fork, which is not
satisfactory. It has been going on since april, and the more i came to think
of it, the more i feel that their behaviour (Frans, joeyh, but also those
others who approved or at least didn't contradict them), was the worse that
any DD ever did, even worse thanb Andrew asking we don't offer our
condoleances to Jens wife, and that was already very grob.
So, if you like to be around with people with total lack of human decency,
then you should accept when they are criticized for it.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
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