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Re: About the (accursed) Penguin Logo.

On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Ean Schuessler wrote:

> Ok, I hate to rant again (well, I don't hate it that much) but here
> we go:
> We _should_ _not_ use the peguin logo. Please, please, please stop
> this madness now before we actually start spending real money on ads
> and stuff.  I people are not fond of the "funky D" that is another
> matter, and one that we are willing to address. The penguin logo is
> totally broken and we should not have committed to it.

As may have been noticed on this list before, 
I disagree with you on this matter, 
and will try to explain why below.

> Some points:

> - The selection process for the Penguin was tainted. It was
>   basically picked by Bruce on some vauge criteria of usability.
>   It was not the winner by vote. 

As stated by Christian Schwartz that arranged the logo "contest" from
which captain blue eye was taken, the "feedback pages" should not be
used for "ranking" or "voting", but to give the logo designers
feedback about how to improve their logos. So simply because other
logos had more "votes" you can't say that the selection process was
tainted. Since Bruce choosing the logo was the only selection process
that took place and he choose the logo he found most fit, it can not
have been tainted. On the other hand no voting at all took place, and
it may be so that in your opinion, a vote among a certain selection of
logos may have been a better selection process ... but the one that
actually took place was *not* tainted!

> - The direct association of the Penguin with Debian is not the best
>   branding as their is a definate sub-project to make Debian a
>   presence on non-Linux platforms.

If such a sub-project will be successful I think we should distinct
the different Debian versions based on different kernels anyway, and 
as an example I see no problem in having different logos for 
Debian GNU/Linux and Debian GNU/Hurd. 

> - The penguin is (pardon my bluntness here) crudely drawn and not a
>   well balanced visual. Their are awkward transitions in the curves
>   that make it apparent that it is a piece of computer generated
>   artwork.

It's on this point I disagree the most with you! I think Captain Blue
Eye is a splendid logo. It's simple and easily recognized and I don't
get the feeling that it's crudely drawn, miss balanced or apparently
computer generated. The fact that it's rather easily drawn using
computer tools I only see as an advantage, and have nothing to do with
whether it's artisticly suitable as a logo or not.

> Some reasons I should be ignored:
> - We will apparently never solve the logo problem.
> - We don't have time.

OK, I hereby ignore these resons not to change logo.

> Here is another thing to think about, however, it is Novare's intent to
> use some of these ad ideas to advertise our Debian sales. Novare has no
> intention of using the Penguin, we will establish our own branding 
> techniques and contribute some of them back to the Debian project for our
> competitors to use. Some features, such as the OpenCorp brand, the 
> ordering and fulfillment infrastructure, support staff and other physical
> infrastructure will naturally remain our property.
> Seeing that we dislike the logo and do not intend to use it (unless forced
> to, at which point we will complain long and loud) maybe this is a good
> time to really try and solve the problem.

I don't think the Debian community should let a single vendor (which
by the way isn't on our vendor list and doesn't mention or reference
Debian in any way on their web pages) decide what logo we should
use. Please don't miss-interpret this Ean, I think it's nice that
organizations support and redistribute our software, and you also
have contributed in several ways not least by contributing with ad
proposals. BUT, I still think it's against what Debian stands for to
let a single organization that probably intent to make money on
Debian be a major factor when selecting our logo, and even worse
force us to change logo because they don't want to use the official
logo in their advertisements.

> Well, there it is.

Yes, it is ;-)

In interest of, but not officially speaking for, Debian GNU/Linux
Fredrik Ax

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