Re: Are users of Debian software members of the Debian community?
On Fri, Sep 16, 2022 at 08:47:19AM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> On 9/16/22 12:12 AM, Nilesh Patra wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 15, 2022 at 06:17:02PM -0400, Chuck Zmudzinski wrote:
> > > To put it in the most brief terms, I come to that conclusion based on what
> > > many people are telling me: Debian maintainers cannot fix bugs in software
> > > because they are just volunteers.
> >
> > That statement is incorrect. People _can_ and _do_ fix a lot of bugs when
> > they have time. There are a lot of DDs/DMs/contributors fixing a lot of bugs on a daily basis
> > for that matter. You could consider taking a look at -devel-changes ML if you'd like to.
> >
> > > That explains why I almost always am at
> > > least annoyed by one or two bugs when running Debian software, and sometimes
> > > after an update the computer is totally unusable until I can debug it and find
> > > the fix, because volunteers don't have the time to do it for me. That is what
> > > most everyone on debian-user is telling me. Do you disagree with what they
> > > say?
> >
> > Well, sometimes bugs do sit around for a bit, yes; but you are presenting it in
> > a much way that it makes the situation look worse than it actually is.
> > The resolution is quick quite a few times (to my
> > experience and I am a DD myself) but yes, sometimes they do sit around for a while.
>
> That's easy to explain why your bugs are fixed quickly. You are a DD, so your
> bugs are important. I am not a DD so my bugs are not as important to the
> maintainers who have a greater responsibility to respond to a DD's bug than
> to an unknown user's bug. That is the way it should be. No problem here, and
> please no one reply and say I am complaining. I am not. I am just seeing
> how things work at Debian and I think they work fairly well.
Please stop with your passive-aggressive rhethoric.
Claiming that we don't care about equally our users is … inappropiate and greatly insulting
to the contributors (regardless of their status in the project).
You need to stop that. Right now.
> >
> > In that case, it is nice to file good bug reports (as Andy told you) and if you have a
> > patch, that's even better. You could consider to ping maintainers after a week or so if
> > you think it is important.
>
> Thanks for the advice. I think a week is way to short. They probably would
> think I am a nag and a troll if I did that. I usually wait six months and they
> still ignore the bug sometimes.
>
> > And if you think something very critical is broken, you could
> > even raise the severity of the bug, I don't see a lot of problem with it.
> >
> > And yes, sometimes the maintainers of a package _can_ be AFK too,
>
> For six months?
Even if it six years, a maintainer has absolutly the right to ignore any report,
be it mine, the DPLs, from someone else or yours. Remeber, unless you pay them,
they do not owe you anything.
The feedback given to you that they way you interacted with the project needs to
improve, but your reaction was *not* to consider this input but to feel insulted instead.
Then you escalated to -user, and as this dis not yield the result you wanted,
you finally escalate to -project, and people are trying hard to explain here
that there is some inappropiateness in your way of interacting with the project.
--
tobi
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