Marc Munro <marc@bloodnok.com> writes: > I feel bad about this, but I'm breaking up with you. > > I've been using Debian for 20 years and in that time I've never strayed > to other distributions. But Buster is too much. Hi Marc, I certainly sympathise with several of you comments. I'm currently doing my biannual-ish tour of the default setup, and packagekit also came to my attention, not in a good way. [and just now Emacs got killed while I was just about to send the first version of this mail, so I think my visit to Gnome-land is nearly over] Anyway, I don't really see that as a reason to abandon Debian. If you want the software you prefer to use to be sustainable, you need to at least use it, and preferably report useful bugs when you find them. Walking away just allows the problems that upset you to get worse. As it happens there's a good opportunity to highlight the sorts of problems you are raising this Saturday, at DebConf19 in Brazil: https://debconf19.debconf.org/talks/84-100-paper-cuts-kick-off/ There was however one particular point you made that caught my eye: > And binary logs and a "smart" viewer for them? If you want to make > logs flexible, log stuff to a sql database. But only as an option, not > by default. Don't make the log system a point of failure. Don't take > away my ability to use grep on a file. Or awk, or perl, or a script. > That is the essence of Unix and it's being lost. I rather like the binary logs of journalctl, as it allows one to list messages from previous boots in a way that makes it _very_ easy to find out that your current problem is not down to some error seen in the boot log, because it turns out that same message was in the boot from last month, so can be safely ignored. That being the case, I _know_ that I have to explicitly enable binary logging, by creating /var/log/journal/ (which is absent by default on Debian). Your comment made me wonder if this had changed recently, so I added a test for it (I've seen this zombie rumour too many times already, so having an easy place to point out that it's nonsense seemed justified): https://openqa.debian.net/tests/1450#step/_collect_data/28 The screenshot there is made on a just-installed default Gnome system (bullsye rather than buster, but they're effectively the same just now). As you can see, all the text logs are there for your grep-ing pleasure, having been produced by rsyslogd as you would expect, whereas /var/log/journal/ is absent, so there are no binary logs being saved. So it seems just a little odd that you managed to get upset by it. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] HANDS.COM Ltd. |-| http://www.hands.com/ http://ftp.uk.debian.org/ |(| Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34, 21075 Hamburg, GERMANY
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