On Thu, 2018-05-10 at 08:01 -0400, Antoine Beaupré wrote: > Failure is an option... TBH, I failed to get anyone else regularly involved in the efforts in the last seven years. I also don't feel like the efforts achieved much. So it feels like the efforts are already a failure. > I feel that derivatives should get more involved in that effort. I'm hoping when I post the other thread there will be more response. > they are constantly trying to solve the same problems There is an item in the census welcome template about this: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA#welcome I note there is another $area related Debian derivative called $otherderivative, have you considered collaborating or merging with them? Of course, some of the duplication is between commercial competitors, which isn't really solvable except via market dominance and mergers. > it seems that everyone is in their own little thing and can't be > bothered to communicate somehow This is a widespread aspect of the FLOSS community, it isn't specific to derivatives. For example, even Debian and Fedora with their upstream first mantras carry lots of patches that were never sent upstream. I've even seen places where folks from upstream projects make changes in downstream distros instead and Debian then adopting those patches. Probably folks just don't have a lot of time and mental bandwidth for their FLOSS efforts so things outside their immediate field of view get less or no attention. On a related note, I'm working on getting the Repology (a better version of whohas) metapackage pages linked from the tracker.d.o site to bring other distros into the field of view for Debian maintainers. https://github.com/repology/repology/pull/616 https://repology.org/metapackage/whohas/versions > I especially find useful the "Ubuntu" section in the Tracker that > shows what that major derivative is doing, because I don't > always get the patches from there explicitly trickled back up. > Ideally, we'd have that for all distros but I can't even begin to > imagine how that would work... I added patches for derivatives in the census to the PTS a while ago, but I need someone who knows Django to port it to the Tracker. The bug report about it also includes some ideas about what else could be listed in a patches panel and how that might work. Probably Repology would be a good place to put a patch-harvesting service. https://bugs.debian.org/779400 https://packages.qa.debian.org/g/glibc.html > It'd be great to find a way to encourage (or coerce? ;) derivatives > to get more deeply involved in census and coordination. I'll start a discussion on the derivatives list about this soonish. TBH, a lot of my census invites result in silence. Perhaps that is because I use email rather than some more modern communication method. If someone would like to do some invites using other methods and decides to reword for that medium, please add your versions here: https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/CensusQA#invite > It's a bit of a wall of text, to be honest. Ack, not sure how to fix that apart from logos or maybe screenshots. > niceties like icons I initially didn't want the page to appear too "Brand-y" but I guess it would be an improvement to the current state, especially with a bit of layout and design advice. > it might be tricky with some trademark issues I'm fairly sure that using a trademark to refer to the holder is fine. > I would put derivatives first and foremost ... "Which derivatives are > available" and "Why use a derivative instead of Debian", so I would > push those to the top. Great point, I'll move "Which derivatives are available?" as the first heading and "Why use a derivative instead of Debian?" as the second. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
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