On Fri, Nov 03, 2017 at 03:24:21PM -0400, Marty wrote: > I recall the user debate being shut down before it had even started, > complete with censored posts and deleted threads, because the Maintainers > Have Spoken. Because they "did the work." Your user opinion is "noise." > I recall the slogans and catch-phrases that echoed corporate propaganda > from Red Hat. Debian under new management. Disregard Debian's own > position on init systems. We'll probably just remove it later. > The debate was fierce even within Debian, and the final vote was very > close. The 1% that decide for the rest, couldn't decide. So you're saying that you're a strong proponent of upstart? It's interesting how much support upstart has gotten only in the form of eulogies. But if your actual position is that Debian should have stayed with sysvinit as the default, then you should understand *that* decision was nowhere near close. The Technical Committee was unanimous in their view that *either* of systemd or upstart was preferable to sysvinit as the default init system. Any claim to the contrary is historical revisionism. > I can't see it from your insider perspective but from where I sit the > whole thing looks corrupt to the bone. Instead of adopting corporate > slogans start with "follow the money" and at least remove voting > privileges from paid members. ... and this sort of nonsense is why I agree with Ian about the causes of TC dysfunction. The Technical Committee is a Debian-internal decision making body. People who are neither package maintainers nor voting members of the Debian Project should NOT have weight given to their views, except by invitation from the TC itself; because to have it any other way creates exactly the same failure modes of any other Internet pile-on, where people who have no standing in the first place expect the issue to be decided based on who can shout the loudest, and those who are trying to make a decision grounded in the TC's constitutional authority and duty to act in the best interest of the project can't hear themselves think. 90% of the problem of people feeling they haven't been heard by the TC comes from people who the TC /shouldn't actually be listening to/ investing their time and emotional energy commenting on the process. Removing the opportunity to comment and the expectation of being listened to would make for a much less frustrating process. This doesn't address the question of Debian Developers feeling they haven't been heard. I'm hopeful that the other subthread can make some progress on this point. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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