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Re: Code of Conduct: picking up

On Wed, 27 Nov 2013 06:52:10 +0900, Norbert Preining wrote:

> You exchange one undefined term against another, but that doesn't
> change the underlying problem, which is, *what* is socially
> disruptive?
> The whole point is that all these pseudo definitions of normality
> are just fake, fake, fake. We are cheating ourselves if we believe
> that even the most simple facts are globally socially acceptable.

I agree on this statement, the question is just which conclusions we

Cultural norms are different everywhere for everybody, so 
- let's just behave like we're sitting in the pub with our buddies,
  and if someone takes offense, bad luck for them; or
- let's try to be sensitive to these differences and personal
  sensitivities and therefore careful in how we interact, and willing
  to accept a complaint and continue to improve.

IMO, the CoC's spirit leans towards the second option, and I very
much prefer it this way.

> Again, a bad joke for you might not be a bad joke for me and the
> other way round.
> There is no "objective" in deciding good behaviour. And that means
> that bad joke is also not definable. You agreed with the fact that
> good behaviour cannot be defined. 

Agreed, in the strict sense.

> So how then do you define a bad joke?

When X people say Y times that $kind-of-jokes are offensive etc.
to them and ask to stop making them in public.

In my understanding, the idea of the CoC is not to define beforehand
"You MUST NOT say $word or you'll be kicked hard" but to give the
message, "Hey, think a bit before, and if you get it wrong, well,
learn from it.", and points only as a last resort to possible
sanctions (that exist anyway nowadays as well) for those who decide
to ignore requests from their peers.

> Undefined: "persistent"
> Undefined: "bad behaviour"

I guess the "problem" is that this is not about science but about a
social system.
(And law also doesn't work like physics.)


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