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Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was: PaySwarm-based donations)

So let's get this straight.

Step 1) Ask APT people if it belongs in APT

Get told to go to debian-project list

Step 2) Ask debian-project list if can put in APT

Get told doesn't belong in APT

Step 3) Fix proposal so it's not in APT, changes to package named 'donate', includes other non-universal payment standards to go with the only 

universal one and therefore only possible candidate for consideration by the W3C, goes upstream as asked for, etc.

Finds out packages for PayPal already exist and that PayPal actually is our pal
Gets told not to swarm against PayPal lest it would make this a bought distribution
Get told to go tell another list
Gets told to go tell other lists (plural)
Gets told to change name of package to something less clear to the user

That about sum it up?

You'd almost think that we're speaking to the martyrs of Tanc-Dunc themselves, when the forces of good numbering in their millions,
with bellies full of food and wine, went on strike for lower wages and lived to tell the blogosphere. Friendly fire in the class war?

Witness the mad magazine style right wing humor and lack of any liberatory or critical theoretic message: http://dunc-bank.zoy.org/
A sign of well intentioned confusion IMO.

Any class analysis in there that makes this a radical critique of modern capitalist society?

Any class theory on offer by anyone else about Tanc-Dunc?

And before another of you tells me as just happened in a private thread about all the in-kind donations of code that were made (even as this VERY thread was going on mind you!), here's proof that
I contributed documentation while this thread was going on too:


And I didn't even dismantle it or make it harder to use intentionally to protect the users from being marketed to (or have their apt-cache searches turn up things that might allow them to do what they want),

In fact, here's an ad for it (created by a professional marketing agency no less!):


----- Original Message -----
From: Charles Plessy <plessy@debian.org>
To: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Cc: debian-project@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: Proposal #3: Upstream/Debian Project donations (was:
 PaySwarm-based donations)

Le Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 09:55:11PM -0400, Manu Sporny a écrit :
> This is a highly re-worked proposal for performing upstream donations
> and donations to the Debian project. Major changes include:
> * Debian developers are not allowed to receive any direct monetary
>   contribution or change the upstream DONATE file in any way.
> * The solution isn't specific to apt.
> * The solution isn't PaySwarm specific. Upstream developers can list
>   Bitcoin addresses, PaySwarm addresses, or URLs that lead to
>   payment gateways like PayPal, Google Wallet, etc.
> There will be a package called 'donate' that will install a program
> called 'donate' on the system. If someone wants to send $5 to an
> upstream project, they can do something like the following:
> donate PACKAGE $5

Dear Manu,

I think that this was a good discussion, including the latest answers made to
you by Paul and Russ.  I wish you good luck, as much of the work is ahead.  I
hope that further discussions with the FreeDesktop, FSF, and other distribution
communities will be fruitful and that one day Debian will redistribute a tool
such as the one that is taking shape.

Just as a small comment: while it looks nice to have a command called "donate"
(especially for English-speaking users), I think that such a direct dictionary
word should be avoided, so that alternative programs can flourish if needed.
But I do not have a better name to suggest.  (note also that there are other
point of views on how to best name a program).

Have a nice day,

Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

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