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Re: Developers vs Uploaders

On Sunday 18 March 2007, Erinn Clark wrote:
> - Stratification
>   As a subset of the power structure thing, one of the other issues I
>   foresee is a "some developers are more equal than others" thing
>   happening. I'm having a hard time thinking of how to explain this,
>   because it's a bit "télétubby", as Joss would say, but I think there
>   is ample world history that supports the idea that caste systems
>   negatively impact societies, unless you're in the upper caste.

We already have a de facto caste system, if you look around you'll find that 
pretty much the only people who are DD's are those who package stuff. 
We have lots of other long-time contributors who translate, write 
documentation and so on, yet very few of those become DD's.

-> there's different levels and ways of involvement in the Project, but the
   current privilige structure does not really reflect this at all, any step
   in the direction of changing this is a Good Thing IMO.

Elsewhere in this thread [1] it was pointed out that we have 2056 unique   
maintainers. Yet we only have 1013 people who had voting rights at the 
beginning of march [2], and NM currently lists only 106 canditates "in 

-> 2056 - 1013 - 106 = 937 non-DD-maintainers who are not in the NM queue.

Now I don't know how many of those have been involved with the project 
long-time, but obviously we have lot's of packaging contributors who don't 
bother with NM.

> - Trust and upload rights
>   I don't think upload rights should be given out trivially, 

the proposal doesn't give out full upload rights, it gives out upload rights 
on a specific package that the person in question has been maintaining 
through sponsored uploads for a long time anyway.

As documented elsewhere in this thread in such a situation the sponsor 
normally has gotten to trust the skills of the sponsoree (in respect to 
that package at least), so that he only gives the package a more and more 
cursory glance.

-> in effect al the proposal is doing is make official the de-facto trust
   that's already present (and doing that in a way that lessens the workload
   of both long time sponsors, and long-time sponsorees)
>   but I also think that if you've got upload rights, you might as well
>   have full rights 

>   and if you've already proven that stuff, then, again, you may 
>   as well be a full-fledged developer.

Not necessarily, for example, I'm a non-DD maintainer for 1 package (since 
may 2005). Now my package (desktop-profiles) is about as simple a package 
as you can have. While I'm perfectly aible to deal with that particular 
package, it's no given that I'd be able to deal with say the packaging of a 

So whereas I've proven that I'm able to deal with the packaging of 1 
particular package, I haven't proven that I'm able to deal with more 
complex packaging.

-> while a good case can be made for me getting upload rights for my 1
   package and only my 1 package, the same is not true for upload rights on
   the whole archive.

>   And what happens when the DMs realize they can't vote (but want to) and
>   that they now have to complete NM anyway?

the same thing that happens now for translators and other non-DD long time 
contributors, they either decide that DD-priviliges are worth going through 
the whole NM-process or not, the difference being that if they decide it's 
not they can continue working on their package(s) withouth having to jump 
through any unnecessary hoops for each upload.

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/03/msg00084.html
[2] http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2007/03/msg00009.html
[3] https://nm.debian.org/
Cheers, cobaco (aka Bart Cornelis)

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