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Re: Proposal - Free the Debian Open Use logo



On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 05:48:42PM -0400, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> > [ You e-mailed me privately, so I'll keep it that way.  But I'll remove
> >   secretary@vote.debian.org to keep Manoj's INBOX smaller. ]
> 
> You can quote/forward me anywhere if you like.  devel-announce is supposed
> to be very low traffic, so I didn't want to include that list.

	I'll post this to debian-project then.  I presume that you will
read it there.

> > 	It is, I think, non-trivial to remove the logo from Debian right
> > now.  It's in quite a few places, and does not always refer to the
> > Debian project.  Sometimes, it is just ornamentation that looks nice.
> 
> Can you give an example?  I can't recall ever seeing the logo used
> in a Debian package in a way that doesn't (by some interpretation)
> refer to Debian.  The only non-Debian usage that I recall was that
> brouhaha caused by a retailer (?) using a flipped and rotated blue
> version.

	It's in GNOME, KDE, some wallpaper, and some icons.  I think
it's in some graphical package management tools as well.

> When a program is written with the intent to run on Debian, and that
> program includes the logo ornamentally, it is still referring to Debian.
> It's like a little mini advertisement.  You may not assume that the
> Debian is endorsing the program, but you can assume that the author of
> the program is endorsing Debian.

	That's because all these people are using it acceptable.  But
that doesn't mean that our logo is _free software_.  For reference,
please read the debian-legal thread I linked to.

> > 	In any case, the logo violates DFSG 8, so that trumps the
> > affordance given by DFSG 4.  If I extracted it from Debian and used it
> > to refer to something else, I would be disallowed from modifying it.
> 
> Again, that's not how I interpret it.  The logo license says the logo has
> to refer to Debian, not that it can't be distributed separately from
> Debian.  I don't see the violation here.  DFSG 8 says that everyone
> else has to play by the same rules that Debian does, and that seems ok
> here.

	Well, that's a simplification.  But Debian can modify the logo
to refer to something else, say goldfish, while other people cannot.  So
the playing field isn't open, so it isn't DFSG-free.

Simon



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