Re: OldWorld ROM Macintoshes
Kernel 6.16 causes a black screen. No response to CTRL + ALT + F1, F2,
etc.
Please advise in troubleshooting.
On Tue, 2025-09-02 at 20:31 -0500, Cedar Maxwell wrote:
> Good news gentlemen.
>
> Last time on OldWorld adventures: I attempted to install several
> versions of Debian but each attempt rendered the OS 9 install
> unbootable both in QEMU and on the WallStreet.
>
> However, the unbootability on the WallStreet appears to have been
> caused solely by my shoddy mSATA to IDE adapter. Although the
> installation didn't boot on QEMU, I tried another adapter (still
> JM20330 based) and it booted up. Note to QEMU maintainers perhaps
> lurking on this mailing list: Is this the intended behavior?
>
> I attempted to boot into Debian 6.1.0-9 using an image from 2023-05-
> 08.
> Mission success! I don't know yet if this because of an older kernel
> version, or because I omitted the GRUB partition, but I intend to
> test
> updating the kernel and reporting back. However, I believe Stan has
> already proven that newer kernels run on the WallStreet.
>
> On Tue, 2025-09-02 at 11:46 -0600, Stan Johnson wrote:
> > Hi Cedar,
> >
> > On 9/1/25 6:58 PM, Cedar Maxwell wrote:
> > >
> > > ...
> > > My drive appears to already be essentially formatted the same,
> > > except
> > > you have additional partitions for your various other OS's
> >
> >
> > My Wallstreet drive was initialized in Mac OS X (Panther), so it
> > has
> > additional Apple driver partitions.
> >
> >
> > > and I have an additional partition for GRUB (to prevent the
> > > Debian
> > > installer from complaining, but maybe I should try again without
> > > this).
> >
> >
> > I think you should not have a GRUB partition on a Wallstreet. Not
> > only
> > does GRUB not work on the Wallstreet, but GRUB doesn't work on any
> > PowerPC system that also needs to boot Mac OS or Mac OS X. I use
> > yaboot
> > on any PowerMac system that also boot Mac OS or Mac OS X. I use
> > GRUB
> > for
> > testing on one Pismo that boots only Debian or Gentoo.
> >
> >
> > > But since we aren't using GRUB this shouldn't affect anything
> > > adversely.
> > > You have a few additional Macintosh related partitions, but I
> > > wasn't sure
> > > if or how I should create these as the OS 9 drive setup only
> > > created what
> > > is shown below.
> >
> >
> > Using Mac OS 9's Drive Setup to initialize the disk should work. As
> > I
> > understand it, you need Apple's drivers to be able to access and
> > use
> > the
> > disk in Mac OS 9.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I tried re-installing everything with the latest 08-29 image, but
> > > now
> > > the installation of Debian renders the drive unbootable (into Mac
> > > OS 9).
> > > Maybe something has changed with Linux/Debian, or I'm missing a
> > > step,
> > > but I don't see why it's ruining my OS 9 install since I made
> > > sure
> > > the
> > > Debian disk partitioner shouldn't be touching any partitions
> > > related to
> > > OS 9. The partitions still appear just fine on my host OS.
> > >
> >
> >
> > I've seen something similar on several PowerPC systems; it seems to
> > happen whenever the Debian installer makes changes to the partition
> > table (that's a guess, and I haven't been able to duplicate the
> > error).
> >
> > Your Mac OS 9 installation should still be ok. Try booting from a
> > Mac
> > OS
> > 9 installation CD, run Drive Setup, select the disk where Mac OS 9
> > is
> > already installed, then select "Update Driver" under "Functions".
> >
> >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > How did you use NetBSD's pdisk IN Mac OS 9 to partition a drive?
> > > Are
> > > you saying you did this on a running system? I couldn't get the
> > > NetBSD
> > > installer to boot on real hardware nor in QEMU, and the
> > > documentation,
> > > although comprehensive, appears to be dated.
> >
> >
> > NetBSD's pdisk can partition a drive that is booted in Mac OS 9,
> > though
> > if you change the Mac OS 9 partition, you may need to reinstall OS
> > 9.
> > There's no risk in using pdisk to modify or create other partitions
> > once
> > your OS 9 partition is stable (parted and mac-fdisk in GNU/Linux
> > don't
> > allow editing the partition table of an active disk). If I also
> > need
> > to
> > create or change the OS 9 or OS X partitions, I usually boot OS 9
> > from a
> > CF card in a PCMCIA adapter and run pdisk from there (almost any CF
> > card
> > larger than about 32 MB is good for that, though it's a little
> > slow,
> > but
> > what isn't slow on a Wallstreet?).
> >
> > NetBSD's installer will boot on the Wallstreet if you copy the
> > installation kernel to the disk and select it using "NetBSD Booter"
> > in
> > Mac OS 9. After installation, "NetBSD Booter" can boot NetBSD
> > directly
> > from your NetBSD volume (though I think the kernel must exist
> > within
> > the
> > first 1 GiB of the NetBSD disk, but that's a different problem).
> >
> >
> > > ...
> > > > What "video=atyfb..." option are you passing to the kernel from
> > > > BootX?
> > >
> > > video=atyfb:vmode:14,cmode:32 , but I tried vmode:10, cmode:24,
> > > etc.,
> > > every combination since all I got after that was a black screen.
> > > My
> > > model is the 266MHz, which came with ATI Rage Pro, 14.1" display,
> > > 1024x768, etc.
> > > https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g3/specs/powerbook_g3_266.html
> > > <
> > > https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g3/specs/powerbook_g3_266.html
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > I'm fairly certain that there's a bug in the latest xorg-server
> > that
> > has
> > broken X11 graphics in the Wallstreet (and other PowerBook G3
> > systems).
> > I just updated Gentoo on a PowerBook Pismo, and the update failed
> > with a
> > different error, though I think the Xorg X11 server had already
> > been
> > updated, and X11 on that Pismo didn't work. So I restored my
> > previous
> > Gentoo installation and I'll have to try to track down exactly
> > where
> > X11
> > broke. It may be easier to test that with Debian SID, which I
> > haven't
> > updated yet on the Pismo (X11 currently works there after a Janusry
> > 22,
> > 2025 update).
> >
> >
> > > > > ...
> > > > > I don't have a faster G3 with SCSI, I had been taking the
> > > > > drive
> > > > > out and
> > > > > plugging it into my modern PC and doing the installation with
> > > > > QEMU. I
> > > > > do have 512MB of RAM though in my WallStreet :-
> > > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > That's interesting. I currently use QEMU only for m68k Macs but
> > > > not for
> > > > powerpc.
> > >
> > > From what I can garner from the mailing list history, this whole
> > > exercise wasn't necessary until about 5 years ago when the QUIK
> > > bootloader was removed from Debian, making booting directly on
> > > OldWorld
> > > impossible.
> > >
> > > There appears to be a more modern replacement developed:
> > > https://github.com/andreiw/iQUIK ;<
> > > https://github.com/andreiw/iQUIK>
> > >
> > > Is there a way to manually install QUIK (or iQUIK) instead of
> > > BootX
> > > to
> > > eliminate the need for Mac OS, so that I can simplify the entire
> > > approach?
> > >
> >
> >
> > I've tried to get QUIK working before but I have never been
> > successful.
> > If you figure out a way to install QUIK, please let me know. In
> > defense
> > of Mac OS 9, it makes a pretty good bootloader, and there are tools
> > in
> > Mac OS 9 that can help diagnose other problems, format old SCSI
> > disks, etc.
> >
> >
> > > Although the latest release is 2016, the author (CC'd) made
> > > commits
> > > as
> > > recently as last year. Perhaps he can provide some insight.
> > >
> > > P.S. Stan: Any experience rebuilding batteries on Wallstreets? I
> > > can't
> > > find replacement cells (17670) or even smaller ones (17650), and
> > > from
> > > what I read 18650s won't fit.
> >
> >
> > No experience, though I would like to rebuild all my PowerBook G3
> > batteries. I used to see batteries for sale on macsales.com (OWC),
> > but I
> > don't think they sell them any longer.
Reply to: