Re: OldWorld ROM Macintoshes
Good news gentlemen.
Last time on OldWorld adventures: I attempted to install several
versions of Debian but each attempt rendered the OS 9 install
unbootable both in QEMU and on the WallStreet.
However, the unbootability on the WallStreet appears to have been
caused solely by my shoddy mSATA to IDE adapter. Although the
installation didn't boot on QEMU, I tried another adapter (still
JM20330 based) and it booted up. Note to QEMU maintainers perhaps
lurking on this mailing list: Is this the intended behavior?
I attempted to boot into Debian 6.1.0-9 using an image from 2023-05-08.
Mission success! I don't know yet if this because of an older kernel
version, or because I omitted the GRUB partition, but I intend to test
updating the kernel and reporting back. However, I believe Stan has
already proven that newer kernels run on the WallStreet.
On Tue, 2025-09-02 at 11:46 -0600, Stan Johnson wrote:
> Hi Cedar,
>
> On 9/1/25 6:58 PM, Cedar Maxwell wrote:
> >
> > ...
> > My drive appears to already be essentially formatted the same,
> > except
> > you have additional partitions for your various other OS's
>
>
> My Wallstreet drive was initialized in Mac OS X (Panther), so it has
> additional Apple driver partitions.
>
>
> > and I have an additional partition for GRUB (to prevent the Debian
> > installer from complaining, but maybe I should try again without
> > this).
>
>
> I think you should not have a GRUB partition on a Wallstreet. Not
> only
> does GRUB not work on the Wallstreet, but GRUB doesn't work on any
> PowerPC system that also needs to boot Mac OS or Mac OS X. I use
> yaboot
> on any PowerMac system that also boot Mac OS or Mac OS X. I use GRUB
> for
> testing on one Pismo that boots only Debian or Gentoo.
>
>
> > But since we aren't using GRUB this shouldn't affect anything
> > adversely.
> > You have a few additional Macintosh related partitions, but I
> > wasn't sure
> > if or how I should create these as the OS 9 drive setup only
> > created what
> > is shown below.
>
>
> Using Mac OS 9's Drive Setup to initialize the disk should work. As I
> understand it, you need Apple's drivers to be able to access and use
> the
> disk in Mac OS 9.
>
>
> >
> > I tried re-installing everything with the latest 08-29 image, but
> > now
> > the installation of Debian renders the drive unbootable (into Mac
> > OS 9).
> > Maybe something has changed with Linux/Debian, or I'm missing a
> > step,
> > but I don't see why it's ruining my OS 9 install since I made sure
> > the
> > Debian disk partitioner shouldn't be touching any partitions
> > related to
> > OS 9. The partitions still appear just fine on my host OS.
> >
>
>
> I've seen something similar on several PowerPC systems; it seems to
> happen whenever the Debian installer makes changes to the partition
> table (that's a guess, and I haven't been able to duplicate the
> error).
>
> Your Mac OS 9 installation should still be ok. Try booting from a Mac
> OS
> 9 installation CD, run Drive Setup, select the disk where Mac OS 9 is
> already installed, then select "Update Driver" under "Functions".
>
>
> > ...
> >
> > How did you use NetBSD's pdisk IN Mac OS 9 to partition a drive?
> > Are
> > you saying you did this on a running system? I couldn't get the
> > NetBSD
> > installer to boot on real hardware nor in QEMU, and the
> > documentation,
> > although comprehensive, appears to be dated.
>
>
> NetBSD's pdisk can partition a drive that is booted in Mac OS 9,
> though
> if you change the Mac OS 9 partition, you may need to reinstall OS 9.
> There's no risk in using pdisk to modify or create other partitions
> once
> your OS 9 partition is stable (parted and mac-fdisk in GNU/Linux
> don't
> allow editing the partition table of an active disk). If I also need
> to
> create or change the OS 9 or OS X partitions, I usually boot OS 9
> from a
> CF card in a PCMCIA adapter and run pdisk from there (almost any CF
> card
> larger than about 32 MB is good for that, though it's a little slow,
> but
> what isn't slow on a Wallstreet?).
>
> NetBSD's installer will boot on the Wallstreet if you copy the
> installation kernel to the disk and select it using "NetBSD Booter"
> in
> Mac OS 9. After installation, "NetBSD Booter" can boot NetBSD
> directly
> from your NetBSD volume (though I think the kernel must exist within
> the
> first 1 GiB of the NetBSD disk, but that's a different problem).
>
>
> > ...
> > > What "video=atyfb..." option are you passing to the kernel from
> > > BootX?
> >
> > video=atyfb:vmode:14,cmode:32 , but I tried vmode:10, cmode:24,
> > etc.,
> > every combination since all I got after that was a black screen. My
> > model is the 266MHz, which came with ATI Rage Pro, 14.1" display,
> > 1024x768, etc.
> > https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g3/specs/powerbook_g3_266.html
> > <
> > https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_g3/specs/powerbook_g3_266.html
> > >
> >
>
>
> I'm fairly certain that there's a bug in the latest xorg-server that
> has
> broken X11 graphics in the Wallstreet (and other PowerBook G3
> systems).
> I just updated Gentoo on a PowerBook Pismo, and the update failed
> with a
> different error, though I think the Xorg X11 server had already been
> updated, and X11 on that Pismo didn't work. So I restored my previous
> Gentoo installation and I'll have to try to track down exactly where
> X11
> broke. It may be easier to test that with Debian SID, which I haven't
> updated yet on the Pismo (X11 currently works there after a Janusry
> 22,
> 2025 update).
>
>
> > > > ...
> > > > I don't have a faster G3 with SCSI, I had been taking the drive
> > > > out and
> > > > plugging it into my modern PC and doing the installation with
> > > > QEMU. I
> > > > do have 512MB of RAM though in my WallStreet :-
> > > > ...
> > >
> > > That's interesting. I currently use QEMU only for m68k Macs but
> > > not for
> > > powerpc.
> >
> > From what I can garner from the mailing list history, this whole
> > exercise wasn't necessary until about 5 years ago when the QUIK
> > bootloader was removed from Debian, making booting directly on
> > OldWorld
> > impossible.
> >
> > There appears to be a more modern replacement developed:
> > https://github.com/andreiw/iQUIK ;<https://github.com/andreiw/iQUIK>
> >
> > Is there a way to manually install QUIK (or iQUIK) instead of BootX
> > to
> > eliminate the need for Mac OS, so that I can simplify the entire
> > approach?
> >
>
>
> I've tried to get QUIK working before but I have never been
> successful.
> If you figure out a way to install QUIK, please let me know. In
> defense
> of Mac OS 9, it makes a pretty good bootloader, and there are tools
> in
> Mac OS 9 that can help diagnose other problems, format old SCSI
> disks, etc.
>
>
> > Although the latest release is 2016, the author (CC'd) made commits
> > as
> > recently as last year. Perhaps he can provide some insight.
> >
> > P.S. Stan: Any experience rebuilding batteries on Wallstreets? I
> > can't
> > find replacement cells (17670) or even smaller ones (17650), and
> > from
> > what I read 18650s won't fit.
>
>
> No experience, though I would like to rebuild all my PowerBook G3
> batteries. I used to see batteries for sale on macsales.com (OWC),
> but I
> don't think they sell them any longer.
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