WRT Term limits, etc. [long]
On 27 Oct 1997, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think term limits may not be the panacea that people think
> they are.
> 1) Unlike general elections, incumbents do not have more money to
> spend than challengers
Huh? Spend what?
> 2) Unlike general elections, incumbents do not get more into the
> constituents eye (any body can mail on the lists any time)
I think you've missed the point.
> 3) I hope we are less lackadaisical than the genral case and do not
> continue electing incumbents from sheer sloth
You're hopelessly optimistic, but again, you've missed the
point.
> 4) Term limits may also force us to loose valuable talent, even if
> they are the best fit for the job at hand
See above (about missing the point).
> 5) Term limits have litte technical merit; they are merely political
> devices. I think that the election to any post in Debian should be
> based on merit.
Whether you think so or not, these _are_ political posts!
Thus political "devices", otherwise known as solutions.
>
> What problems are term limits supposed to solve, exactly?
I'm glad you asked. I've been involved in a number of
volunteer organizations, many of which were organized not
unlike debian (with political offices, elections, etc.)
Volunteer organizations are just that -- organizations! It
is there nature to function as an extension of their
purpose, rather than an extension of any one individual.
Term limits force the organization to structure itself to be
less beurocratic than it could otherwise afford to be. It
also empowers the "system" or "process" by which the
organization runs, rather than empowering a person or
political post. It is the unique nature of volunteer
organizations that makes them uniquely suited for term
limits on its offices.
The "problems" that term limits address are the kind that
never get addressed until something dreadfully bad happens.
I'll give you a "for instance":
Suppose Bruce (or his successor) becomes so identified with
the project, that the leader figure overshadows or even
redefines the project from the perspective of the masses.
Suddenly, the leader figure is associated with a politically
incorrect cupcake manufacturer that uses only partially
recycled cupcake paper. Now, the news all over Berkley has
people creating legislation to bann the use of Debian
software, since the leader figure is sooo politically
incorrect! ;) (small dig at Berkley-ites -- no offense)
This is a bit far fetched, I'll admit, but there are a
plethora of smaller issues that never even arise when people
know that the _consecutive_ term is limited in any event
(with the exceptions listed in the original proposal.)
As for "losing good talent", I think that's being silly.
The incumbents don't need to go away just becuase they're no
longer in a political position of power. Of course, if they
choose to, the organization is likely better off without
them in any case. Please also keep in mind that people with
good technical skills are not always (or perhaps I should
say are seldom) skilled politically, or organizationally.
If a volunteer organization is so dependant on any one
individual that something like term limits are not feasable,
then I think the organization needs reorganizing. I don't
think Debian needs reorganizing, however.
Please try to evaluate the proposal on its own merits. It
has nothing to do with Bruce specifically, other than the
fact that he's currently in one of the offices in question.
Just to recap, the proposal will never leave a post vacant
unless the incumbent willingly vacates it. The term limits
are _not_ lifetime term limits, but limit consecutive years
at the same post.
On bruce being a putz:
That's not what I meant by that. If it makes you feel any
better Bruce, I don't think you're any more a putz than I am
;) I only meant that in life there are people, and there is
friction. If everyone always liked me, I'd be doing
something wrong. That doesn't make me (or you) a bad guy.
It's perfectly OK to disagree, and even get angry with
eachother. Its a different matter to become aggressive and
ugly in the manner recently done on the lists (against you).
Sorry if that point wasn't entirely clear.
On ferns and evolution:
I like ferns. However, your point on this topic is well
taken and the best argument against term limits I've heard
so far.
On whether or not I'll run for president:
I'm neither qualified, nor interested at this time.
Besides, I think you need to be 35 and a US resident ;)
--
"Until we extend the circle of our compassion to all living
things, we will not ourselves find peace" -Albert Schweitzer
Richard G. Roberto
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