Re: abandoning the rules of discourse
On 24 Oct 1997, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> Hi,
> >>"Kai" == Kai Henningsen <kaih@khms.westfalen.de> writes:
>
> Kai> So then here's a proposal for a policy:
>
> Kai> If a list participant (who is otherwise eligible for the list,
> Kai> like being a project member if the list is debian-private)
> Kai> undertakes an action that seriously endangers the existence or
> Kai> use of the list, then as an emergency measure, that individual
> Kai> can be blocked from the list until the matter is resolved.
>
> With you so far.
>
> Kai> Such an action might be posting X11 to the list, but not being
> Kai> rude.
>
> You lost me on the last clause.
>
> Kai> Yet we still want freedom of the press, don't we?
>
> Even the freedom of press has limitations put on it. One
> specific limitation is libel (or slander -- I can't keep them
> apart).
Yes, but the press is free to print the opinions of radical parties.
'Animal experimentation is abhorent and should be illegal, since it is
completely unethical. I hate the a-- holes who perform the experiments.'
is an example of a legitimate press quote. Some people seem to feel about
as strongly about the version numbering change. (Note that the above
quote does not completely accurately represent my position on that
particular issue.)
> Kai> I think I accidentally stumbled upon the right word here. You
> Kai> can't have freedom without the freedom to insult.
>
> Kai> There's always a price you pay for freedom. This is part of the
> Kai> price for free speech.
>
> Sorry, no. I do not have the freedom to kill. I do not have
> the freedom to punch people on the nose. I do not have freedom for
> assault and battery. I merely wish to extend this to verbal assault
> and battery on the Debian list.
Of course freedom in the real world requires qualification with many
social contracts. The extent of the freedom of speech is an example of
debate over a particular one of these contracts. There are certainly
situations in which I would prefer to be allowed to insult someone, though
it certainly wouldn't be over a numbering scheme. If you deny someone
freedom of expression you yourself would prefer to have under other
circumstances, you are exercising censorship, which since not a mutual
power is never democratic. Of course the Debian mailing lists can
establish their own rules, but I for one don't think it's likely to be
worth it.
>
> By your argument freedom is defined as freedom frm all
> laws. Thus spake Nietze.
>
> In everything, price moderation, my friend. Even for
> freedom. Your rights ends where my nose starts.
>
> manoj
> --
> Remember: Silly is a state of Mind, Stupid is a way of Life. Dave
> Butler
> Manoj Srivastava <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>
> Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
__
I like six eggs when starting on a journey. Fried - not poached. And
mind you don't break 'em. I won't eat a broken egg.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
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