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Cleaning Uploaders -- a mistake?


As part of paving the road for perl 5.10, today I've looked at some of
the arch:any packages we have and uploaded a couple that were fixed by
gregoa's mighty script to not remove /usr/*/perl5 unconditionally.

Additionally I've applied the usual amount of nitpicking so there were
other changes as well, not only the directory removal issue.

As part of this, I've removed non-DDs, non-DMs from Uploaders as usual.

However, Xavier Oswald, who maintains a number of libauthen-*-perl
packages has objections on that last part. See the attached IRC log for

One approach out that I see is to revert the DM-part of the group policy
and instead refuse to use DM-Upload-Allowed in all our packages. AFAIK
it is set only for one package -- libdevice-cdio-perl and Tincho has not
yet taken advantage of it.

Please comment.
dam            JabberID: dam@jabber.minus273.org
16:02 < xoswald> dam: I have see a new version of  libauthen-krb5-simple-perl
16:02 < xoswald> dam: and in the log -> Put me in Uploaders instead of Xavier
16:03 < dam> xoswald: http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/policy.html#debian_maintainers_practice
16:04 < dam> it was discussed on the list, perhaps you've missed it. you stay in the changelog so credit is given.
16:04 < xoswald> dam: you added you as uploader or you remove me and put you ?
16:04 < xoswald> yes Im busy with Uni exam this month, I didn't have read my mails
16:04 < dam> xoswald: I removed you and added myself
16:04 < SquOnk> We need the Co-mantainer field... or something.
16:05 < dam> SquOnk: for... what?
16:05 < xoswald> dam: you could have tell me or just add you
16:05 < SquOnk> dam: For that...
16:06 < dam> xoswald: what is the problem?
16:06 < dam> xoswald: why do you need to be in Uploaders?
16:07 < xoswald> Im intereted in maintaining all libauthen-foo-perl package that's why I started to package all libauthen-foo-perl, as you can see in http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=x.oswald@free.fr
16:07 < xoswald> dam: you could have let me as uploader
16:08 < dam> xoswald: according to http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/policy.html#debian_maintainers_practice Uploaders contains a list of developers that upload the package
16:09 < dam> xoswald: if you want to track the package via qa.deban.org, there was some subscription service
16:09 < xoswald> I have already uploaded two version of this package
16:10 < dam> $ who-uploads libauthen-krb5-simple-perl
16:10 < dam> Uploads for libauthen-krb5-simple-perl:
16:10 < dam> 0.32-3 to unstable: Damyan Ivanov <dmn@debian.org>
16:10 < dam> 0.32-1 to unstable: Michael Ablassmeier <abi@debian.org>
16:10 < dam> 0.32-2 to unstable: Michael Ablassmeier <abi@debian.org>
16:10 < xoswald> dam: with http://packages.qa.debian.org/liba/libauthen-simple-perl.html we are 4 uploaders, I don't why we couldn't do the same for this one..
16:10 < xoswald> dam: http://packages.qa.debian.org/liba/libauthen-krb5-simple-perl.html
16:10 < xoswald> abi has upload it since Im not a DD
16:11 < xoswald> have a look on the link
16:11 < dam> indeed. pkg-perl decided to use Uploaders for people who have permission to upload, not co-maintain
16:11 < xoswald> hmm
16:12 < dam> i.e. co-maintainers are in the changelog
16:13 < xoswald> dam: so if I well understand, if there are people who only want to maintain perl-pkg, they cannot be DD since they will never have perl package in their QA page..
16:16 < dam> QA page containing perl modules is not a requireent for becoming a DD :)
16:17 < xoswald> dam: yes, but it could be that someone is onyl interested with perl stuff
16:17 < dam> xoswald: your AM/DAM will look deeper than the QA page anyway and see in the changelog
16:17 < xoswald> if you don't have any package in you QA page, this is bad and you will be rejected by myon
16:17 < xoswald> Im thinkinh before have an AM
16:19 < Tincho> xoswald: I don't think myon will reject you if you're really working
16:19 < Tincho> it is not that hard to look at svn commits
16:19 < dam> yes, QA page is only one thing, and for pkg-perl it is not very correct
16:20 < dam> and, you already have an AM :)
16:20 < Tincho> now that we're talking about think, I remembered that he's here :)
16:20 < Tincho> s/think/him/
16:21 < xoswald> I know :) , but I cannot understand why it's bad and annoying having Co-maintainer (non-uploader) in the Uploaders field.. But well, I will stop with it with this sentence..
16:21 < dam> xoswald: imagine:
16:21 < dam> that joe-random-user once prepared new upstream of libfoo-perl and got in Uploaders
16:22 < dam> later, joe-random-user is accepted as a DM, based on his work on package super-cow
16:22 < dam> later, Tincho, who is a DM wants to be able to upload libfoo-perl, for which he cares very much
16:23 < dam> and, I upload libfoo-perl with XS-DM-Upload-Allowed: yes
16:23 < dam> see? joe-random-user now has permission to upload libfoo-perl
16:24 < xoswald> dam: yes, but Im not lucky since my AM don't like DM and don't want to apply any of his NM for DM
16:24 < xoswald> :/
16:25 < xoswald> dam: but ok, I understand..
16:30 < Myon> if you are maintaining stuff, you should be in the Uploaders: field
16:30 < Myon> or at least in the changelogs
16:31 < xoswald> Myon: yes, but as dam says, Im don't have upload rights so he removed me from the Uploaders field
16:33 < Myon> well, then put yourself in the Maintainer: field
16:34 < Tincho> Myon: that'd contradict the current group's policy
16:34 < dam> http://pkg-perl.alioth.debian.org/policy.html#debian_control_handling
16:35 < xoswald> Myon: that's not the right way, I could have do that, Im for working in a  co-maintainance way, it's much better
16:35 < Myon> the policy is broken if it removes maintainers (= people maintainer) from their packages
16:35 < Myon> (= people maintaining)
16:37 < Tincho> the problem is that DM-upload-allowed is an all or none switch, so to fine control it, we needed to remove people from uploaders, which was used to track contributors until now
16:42 < dam> xoswald: you can still take care of the package, you have access to the SVN repo. The goal is not to take the package away from you. Certainly not!
16:46 < xoswald> I have packaged all the libauthen-foo-perl package, Im the maintainer ! I have used the perl team as maintainers since I was thinking this was the right and nicer way to do that. I could have be the maintainer and then don't have put the perl team as maintainer.. It's sad to to see that. I hope you understand me..
16:59 < dam> would subscribing via http://qa.debian.org/developer.php ("Subscribing to packages") be enough? you are a member of the group, so you still are responsible for them...
17:00 < dam> Perhaps I should bring up the issue in the list again (but as you don't have time to read it...)
17:01 < dam> xoswald: May I quote the IRC log?
17:04 < xoswald> you can, np
17:04 < xoswald> dam: I will take time to read it and reply

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