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Re: Should Debian Live be supported with lenny?

Le February 15, 2009 06:03:46 am Daniel Baumann, vous avez écrit :
> Filipus Klutiero wrote:
> > Hi,
> Hi,
> first of all: you are aware that you hit the *worst* possible time of
> sending that email when doing it on the *very* *evening* *when* *we*
> *are* *actually* *really* *releasing*, especially when everyone knows
> that the release is being made that evening.
You are aware that Debian Live lenny RC1 was released on *2009-02-09*? I did 
not see any announcement of that, so I had to find that it was released by 
myself before waiting after the images server pushing around 20 kB/s, and I 
still managed to test and open this thread on the *first* week-end day 
following the release. I'm not paid to do QA on Debian.
> second, it would have been more than appropriate to CC me for that mail,
> and of course also send a CC to debian-live@lists.debian.org.
I meant to CC debian-live but sent the mail too fast.
> third, i've took the time to answer your questions when you approached
> me with them 10 days ago. however, this appears to have been wasted as
> you did not care to attach my answers to the questions you're repeating
> here and i apparently (since this post should not left be unanswered
> from our side), do have to reiterate it here.
I asked you 2 questions, one of which I didn't repeat in this thread. I quoted 
your answer to the other one at the end of my message.
> fourthly, apparently you lack the ability to communicate bugs you
> experiencing properly. most of your issues do lack any information to
> make something useful out of it. also, again, you have never tried to
> contact our mailinglist about it at all, nor did you submit any bug
> report. bugs do not get solved by mumbling about them in a private mail
> (and not following up with required information).
I didn't perceive any request for follow ups in your answers. If I missed one, 
I'd be happy to provide the required information if you tell me what you 
> > according to the current lenny release notes, Debian Live is going to
> > become official with lenny for x86. I tried Debian Live several times and
> > always had issues with it. So, I decided to test Debian Live a bit and
> > found that several issues still applied. I discussed with Daniel Baumann
> > about some issues, and the following seem to be relevant:
> >
> > Apparently innocuous error popup after KDE is started.
> you did not mention that 10 days ago, so this one is new.
Indeed, though I see that more as a negative point.
> however, such a statement is as usefull as "doesn't work[tm]". feel free
> to send a *useful* bug report with the needed details so that we are
> able to understand it.
The purpose of this thread is not to improve Debian Live. At the time I opened 
the thread, time was running out to even take the decision of making Debian 
Live official or not.
> > Fails to boot from hard disk (disk1).
> you did not mention that 10 days ago, so this one is new.
I don't know, I tested RC 1 more than beta 2.
> dd'ing a usb-hdd image to a harddisk works the same way as to an usb
> stick. this has always been working. stating "doesn't work[tm]" doesn't
> help. feel free to send a *useful* bug report with the needed details so
> that we are able to understand it.
As above.
> > Empty F8 screen.
> you did not mention that 10 days ago, so this one is new.
As above, I hadn't tested this with beta 2.
> this is not actually a bug. in order to have debian-cd and debian-live
> images similar, we do use the same organisation of the help screens in
> syslinux. however, d-i's f8 content does not apply and we don't have any
> usefull content to fill in there, that's why it's nothing there. i'm
> sure i could put an 'empty' frame there if desired.
Yes. Or don't mention that screen when it's empty. Or both.
> > The latest image I downloaded still has an old problem, failures at
> > shutdown. Daniel replied this one would be fixed either for r0 or r1.
> that's not precise, i said:
> "should be fixed with current live-initramfs in sid/lenny. the last
> prebuilds do contain an older version. if not, for r1 then."
> for the records: i didn't saw "failures at shutdown" in the last two
> month on cd builds, and neither 10 days ago and neither are they today.
> if they have happened, they were fixed in newer live-initramfs in late
> december (i don't remember from regular builds from before).
You must have been thinking about different failures then.
> additionally, stating "failures" doesn't help. feel free to send a
> *useful* bug report with the needed details to understand it.
As above.
> > As for the rest:
> >
> > The manual is under heavy construction.
> i said: "the manual is about live-helper; that's something completely
> different."
> it should be immediately clear to anyone that the documentation about
> the tool that is used to *build* the images does not bother people that
> *use* the image.
As I replied privately, I was referring to the Live Manual ( 
http://live.debian.net/manual/ )
> > The latest version, RC1, didn't receive much testing.
> true, could have been better. we'll improve on making calls to d-d-a and
> similar locations more often during the freeze period of squeeze.
> > There is no bug tracker.
> i mentioned that we do use bugs.debian.org for that.
Actually, you replied with "bugs.debian.org?", which sounded like a question 
to me.
> additionally, we have since 2007-09-23 the following text available:
> http://live.debian.net/manual/html/bugs.html
> having a pseudo bts package would eventually make sense, but not just
> now as the websites (live.d.o or d.o/devel/debian-live) are not done and
> thuse the pseudo-package name isn't clear. however, that's a tiny
> cosmetic thing if you assign bugs to live-helper or a pseudo-package.
The bugs aren't (generally) in the websites. security-tracker is a good 
example of a pseudo-package that avoids using a domain...even if that one is 
a website. "live" is not used. Otherwise, debian-live. I already made a DD 
completely mad for assigning a bug report to a package much less inexact than 
throwing a random Debian Live bug at live-helper.

> > Quoting my discussion with Daniel:
> >
> > I wrote:
> >>>> It seems there are infrastructure issues. The
> >>>> distribution servers don't seem redundant.
> >>>
> >>> cdimage.debian.org is the main distribution point. live.debian.net is
> >>> just for snapshots.
> >>
> >> Good, though I still don't see any link to cdimage.debian.org.
> where do you envision such a link?
I suppose the Download page should link to that, if the Download link doesn't 
point there directly.

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