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Re: Reorganisation of www.debian.org: Please provide information about your Blend



Hi Mechthilde,


it would be helpfull if we could discuss first how to initialise a "debian lex" project.

There could be an base (l~international) version wich misses national applications and on wich national blends could be build on.

This could be a help for later national versions of smaller states. Could be seen as fork of base version.

For the base version I would take a step back from java due to nerverending securety issues.

For international version also Fax must not be implemented, as this is more often a German technique and will cause increasing trouble in future.

We also have lack of authority so that members of debian lex would have to gain personel trust first and meanwhile we need trusted members to make releases.

I would like to set a deep view on which techiques can be implemented and in doubt I prefere a not yet complete version before something what is open in attack by default.


Best Greetings

Michael Guck






Am 08.10.19 um 18:55 schrieb Mechtilde:
Hello,

and I learn to pack software written in Java. This is slowly making
progress.

As j-lawyer is written in Java, it is a prerequisite to be able to
package j-lawyer,

I'm glad if some more people step in to help packaging it.

I put together some inforamtions about free software which can use in
alawyer office. These packages are mostly packaged in Debian.

https://wiki.debian.org/OfficeApplication

Kind regards

Mechtilde

Am 08.10.19 um 00:11 schrieb Jens Kutschke, j-lawyer.org:
Good compilation of software, thanks.

I can throw j-lawyer.org (an open source case management licensed under
AGPLv3) into the ring as an addition. I had spoken to Andreas earlier
this year, and have made some progress in the meantime with regards to
packaging (.deb available now, in addition to a more generic .sh installer).

Cheers,
Jens

Am 07.10.19 um 23:53 schrieb debian-lex@guck.biz:
hi all,

I just found this email by a funny coincidence. I diedent use this
mail adress for years.
I had to smile a little, because years ago I also had the idea to
"look in" at Debian and offer me as head.
I always like to do this because then it's impossible to get another
head-of and the hirarchies stay flat so that the fun can stay too hahaha
Well, fun aside.
I want to narrow down the most wanted Deban-LEX project a bit.
If one wanted to make a debian blend out of this, then differs from
the previous blends probably in that in the area of Legaltech
hardly an internatinalization takes place.
As development cycles are quite slow for both Debian and lawyers, I
would say let's look at how the legal system works
in Europe, the US and the rest of the world maybe in 20 years.
With the DSGVO / GDPR we have the first comprehensive directive in the
EU,  the first EU law of some relevance.
In fact, one could think that the decisions of the ECJ will create a
common law and eleminate most national differences
As far as the legal approach is concerned in this area, they are not
that big that you can at least try.
But I suspect that this national harmonization will not go so far as
to have unified networks or interfaces for Lawyers in 20 years, and
presumably there will not even be standardized interface descriptions
/ data descriptions until then.
I think (Tele)Fax is loosing attention but is still important in
german legal system. Its often the only possibility to send
messages to state authorities in time by Fax,  as E-Mail usually is
not admitted and the only other way is to use an 24h physical mailbox
outside the building which is difficult when you are somewhere else.
There is litterally no living communety wich sees any future in this
technique so projects like hylafax die out. I think I tried there
one  provided version several times wich could not run because of a
bug and no one there who told anyone about this.


Any Fax Web application is unsecure, because you have to transport the
PDF data over internet, most often ony protected by SSL and the PDF
file will shortly be saved at the receiving server and
on the drive there. This is so bad, that most providers who offer
software-fax-printer dont even think about these files and that they
fall within the scope of GDPR/DSGVO.  They argue that they are
communiaction providers and not content providers but this is untrue
when it comes to logfiles and these fax-files and also personal base
data. So this is gap of compliance and data securety by design and by
default as these comprehensive data seems not to exist for any known
by me provider.

For legal data standards, there are in Germany a few approaches that
are well-intentioned, but let's face it, these are useless in practice
because they are either only one-sided
authority and/or only cover a small subarea and have already been made
from the point of view only to achieve a medium-term goal.
They limit new developments so that they could only be implimented as
a kind of "view", but nothing shoudl be build based on it.
Then there are huge differences in the national legal systems even as
far as the self-understanding of legal work is concerned. While in the
Anglo-American area
the caselaw is used (find a decision that was "the same" like here)
exactly this approach here in Germany actually spoiled and if it is
implemented by judges, that's always
a sign that individual rights are probably cut, because again was not
looked closely and should be made equal so that it goes fast for the
court but shouldnt. Here
In Germany, instead of case-law, there is the legal methodology.
These differences, which are huge in the application of law, will not
be so strong for a Debian blend at a first look, because that's what it is
as a personel work the lawyer remains while using a system. But it
goes deeper at secound look.

What will remain different are connections to official communication
systems, (case and other law related) databases and I am not sure if a
data management system
for lawyers internationally could be developed in a way that it still
makes sense beacause it should be good peace of software too and might
get senseless overheads.
Michael Stehmann from Canzeley has already implemented nationally
different formatting of address data, but this is only a small part of
what then
exists as national differences. I also did so, as every Lawyer
sometimes wants to contact foreign attorneys or authorites.
Then there is the question as to which techniques are provided in the
Debian blend.
I am currently working with a Linux MINT LMDE 3, which is also based
on Debian. I had an approach with a Debian 9 before, which I build myself
from a headless system and then everything that is potentially
security relevant was gone. Unfortunately Java is needed anyway by the
German beA system,
I wrote letters at time years ago to prevent this but never got an
answer and feel some cind of alone and frustrated as the startup of it
really messed and got worse then I expected when I wrote my letters.
Today, after I only work with LUKS encrypted virtual machines based on
debian, I would not put any more data directly on a host system
beacause of practical needs. I dont use network / server with this
mashine.

This could fit common needs of a blend, as it should not make any
difference where it is installed.

It's very handy if you have an installation with 15-40GB on it all and
you can just copy over Thunderbold 3 with 1GB / second the wohle
virtual disk
or you work directly on an external NVMe SSD with few of these systems
on it.

I have included email with Thunderbird, where I am currently migrating
e-mail into my law firm system so that they can be automatically
assigned and appear in the mandates.
In addition, I am not so good with the Thunderbird spam filter and
because I work with catch all e-mails that I use only 1x is that just
easier to implement with my own code / spam filters / receive system.

I have the following programs installed (sometimes as an approach for
discussion)
- efax-gtk (is hardly used) I failed because I set up a hylafax and
then run on Voip at O2, so ring through yes, fax no and that with both
standard transmission standards
- Linphone (theoretically goes over Voip phone but I do not use it
anymore)
- Signal / Chromium (I do not trust but more than WhatsApp, allegedly,
the operator does not give data to the US government or does not store
them, it would be better if they can not safe any data by architecture
because they include their own key locally)
- Firefox with some shortcuts to pages I usw as Lawyer
- Thunderbird with Enigmail (Enigmail PGP I use isolated, in the past
there were sometimes problems with updates where then nothing worked)
- WebHHTPTrack to locally save websites as evidence
- beA Securety Client with its own Java library (German "lawyer's mail")
- Jameica / Hibiscus (online banking, unfortunately PINs can not be
stored in the software, so it is not practical for many accounts)
- Open office writer
- gscan2pdf (very functional and practical scan software which
supports different pdf libs but rarely causes problems, especially if
scanners are not detected wich works on xsane)
- of course my own unpublished law firm software, which does all the
rest and is a big project for itself

I have set it up so that the browsers have a non-existent local proxy
set up and only the websites I have specified in a whitelist are
enabled, and plugins are installed,
which prevent the loading of scripts, flash, etc. these could be
eventually be eleminated or turnd off as they are a risk for themselfes

Hardware:
Rainer SCT chip card reader

Propreritary software
brother printer driver / scanner driver / fax driver

For backups I use rsync some bash code and cron

Within the framework of GDPR / DSGVO, all accesses to the system
should be logged, especially if several users have access, ideally
data should also be deleted from the backups at the time of deletion,
etc. etc. etc....

So building a Debian Flavor would mean:
make it compliant for use in pracis, things never anyone thought about!


In addition I use an E-Mail Server for receiving with postfix and
dovecot. This is not part of my working system as it stays at one
place while the working system gets copied and goes where I go.
For some cases I use an proxy server as well, so I have different
network settings.


Best regards
Michael Guck



Andreas Tille schrieb am 23.07.2019 18:50 (GMT +02:00):

Hi,

On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 12:41:03PM -0300, vina@adv.oabsp.org.br wrote:
> Good morning Andreas, since the debianlex project was abandoned, i have the
> intention to assume it,

What is your actual plan to resume it?

> trying in the meantime to get together a team of lawyers that are specialists > in digital law to aid me, so, it is possible to make me the head of that
> project?

In Debian you usually become the head of a group by just doing something
in the first place and other agree that it is sensible. You do not
become head by asking into the void whether you can be the head. Just
do something, stir some discussion on the debian-lex mailing list,
package something that is relevant for lawyers or something like this.
If I were you I would start with an introduction on the debian-lex
mailing list.

> the contacts in debianlex page are offline since last updates, they dont
> asnwer.

This is what I expected.

Kind regards

Andreas.

PS: Since several people in the past approached me by private mail I'd
like to tell in advance that there is no point in private conversation.
Please always stick to open discussion on the mailing list - I have no
private hints to share.

--
http://fam-tille.de

Viele Grüsse,
Jens Kutschke
(j-lawyer.org)



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