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Re: Sun Java available from non-free

On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 08:34:22AM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote:
> > the project by not consulting you first is so much bullshit, because *they*
> > are the ones who bear the primary liability from distributing these
> > packages, and other developers (as opposed to mirror operators) bear none at
> > all.  They didn't ask you because Debian is not a democracy and random
> > opinions on this decision *don't* matter.

> Whow! Now that really hist me hard. First of al would you please explain
> why it hurts only ftpadmins and not the project? If Sun was to sue
> someone they certainly sue the project and not a single representative.

"The project" is not a legal entity.  Sun might try to sue, in approximate
descending order of relevance:

- SPI, Inc.
- the mirror operators/sponsors
- the ftpmasters
- the SPI officers
- the package maintainer

"other Debian developers" don't have any reason to worry about their own
liability here, but the ftpmasters definitely *do*, particularly as mirror
operators and SPI could turn around and sue them for negligence.

Yes, we all have a fair bit to lose in a worst-case scenario where Sun sues
and wins SPI's assets, including the Debian trademarks, copyrights, and bank
accounts; or causes us to lose key mirrors because the sponsors deem they
can no longer afford a relationship with us.  But whereas most of us are
then free to go our own ways and create DebianPlusPlus, ftpmasters also run
the risk of winding up in court personally.

> Second if Debian is no democracy what else is it???

A meritocracy^Wtheocracy^Wtechnocracy?

On Mon, May 22, 2006 at 08:36:55AM +0200, Michael Meskes wrote:

> > ftpmasters for lack of transparency here instead of trying to support them
> > to make good decisions.

> How can we support them? I'd really like to know. After all this
> decision was made behind closed doors for reasons that might be valid or
> not. But how can you help someone if you don't know he needs help?

Some people in this thread seem to think the ftpmasters need help, but
aren't being particularly helpful.  Civilly pointing out possible problems
with the license that may have been overlooked is potentially helpful;
complaining that no one shopped the license around to -legal before the
upload (which no one ever has an obligation to do) isn't...

Steve Langasek                   Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer                   to set it on, and I can move the world.
vorlon@debian.org                                   http://www.debian.org/

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