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Re: Adobe open source license -- is this licence free?

On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 12:34:13AM +0100, Yorick Cool wrote:
> Glenn> > Michael> I do not miss that point at all; I think that the default rules of law
> Glenn> > Michael> are preferable to the imposition of a forum selected by the
> Glenn> > Michael> licensor.
> Glenn> > 
> Glenn> > And why is that, if the effects are the same? Is it just out of some
> Glenn> > kind of irrational hatred of licensors? 
> Glenn> 
> Glenn> Unless the law says that the venue will be the home turf of the copyright
> Glenn> holder in all cases, the effects *are not the same*.
> It is very much possible that such is the case in some venues. In
> fact, I have a feeling it is the case somewhere, but I can't remember off the
> top of my head where.

The only way the effects could be the same is if they were the same in
*all* jurisdictions.  Otherwise, it's not the same.

> The thing you keep missing and refusing to answer is that in the real
> world, there are laws saying approximately everything that is
> possible. So by default, some licensees will have to fly to
> California, and some won't. That is not an optimal solution. The
> situation with a choice of venue is not optimal either. Hence, nothing
> really distinguishes them enough to consider one situation as free and the
> other as non-free.

Choice of venue is replacing the "not optimal" situation with the "worst
possible" case; rather than only some people being forced to deal with a
far-away jurisdiction, now every defendant has to.  I don't see how that's
an improvement.

> If it is a condition to enjoy the use of the software, then no. But in
> case you didn't notice, you don't have to fly to California to enjoy
> the software with the choice of venue clause. 

Agreeing to the condition--the choice of venue--is a condition to receive
the license to the software.  If you don't agree to the choice of venue,
then you don't get the license.  Any condition to receiving the license is
a restriction on the permissions granted by that license, making choice of
venue very much encompassed by the DFSG and within the scope of Free
Software's concern.

Glenn Maynard

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