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Re: mozilla thunderbird trademark restrictions / still dfsg free ?

OK, I think it is a good idea to post the full mail for reference purpose.

Gervase Markham wrote:

Alexander Sack wrote:

OK, please make a summary ASAP with the points that are needed, e.g. no
package must be called something with mozilla, etc. Please keep in mind that we
are about to release anytime soon, so we are a bit in a hurry here ;). Perhaps
compose the mail in a such a way that makes you feel comfortable that I forward
it to some public list (debian-legal, debian-release) or so. If you don't want
me to forward your reply on this mail, let me know!

Hi Alex,

I apologise for the delay in replying.

Here's a first attempt at balancing the concerns of mozilla.org and Debian
with regard to the issue of trademarks and Thunderbird in Debian.   Please let
me have your feedback.

The Debian concern is that the software they distribute is Free software. The
mozilla.org concern is that everything labelled with our trademarks is of high
quality. Both groups understand that this problem could be avoided simply by
removing all the trademarks (because the software itself is Free), but that this
is in the best interests of neither group.

This document assumes that Debian would be distributing the application under
the "Community Edition" section of the Trademark Policy:
and making changes only as described therein, or as agreed with us.


- The Thunderbird logo is not Free, so Debian would probably not want to
distribute it anyway. There are alternative Free logos in the source repository
you can use (which get included by default in builds made from it), or of course
you may design your own, if it is not confusingly similar to the Foundation
trademarked logo.


- In manuals, the title bar and other places, the software should officially
refer to itself consistently as one of "Thunderbird for Debian" or "Debian
Thunderbird" (your choice; we prefer the first). If neither of these "qualified"
names is acceptable, please suggest another.

- "Mozilla Thunderbird" is the designation we use for official mozilla.org
releases; therefore, no part of the package should be called, or refer to itself
as "Mozilla Thunderbird".

- Subject to negotiations about the exact contents of and build options for
the package, Debian may call their package and the executable "thunderbird".
(Such negotiations have basically been completed.)

Derived Works:

- People distributing works derived from the default Debian package of
Thunderbird will have to also comply with the mozilla.org trademark policies, or
remove the trademarks entirely from the package. Obviously, if it's a just a
copy of the package, no permission would be needed. Debian would of course not
be responsible for enforcing this; however, they may wish to (and we would
request that they) make users aware of it.

This last point is, to my mind, equivalent to the trademark permissions of
e.g. the BSD, Apache or Apache 2.0 licenses. I.e. something like:

The names *"Thunderbird" and "Mozilla"* must not be used to *label*, endorse
or promote products derived from this software without prior written permission.

(Base is Apache 1.0 trademark clause; emphasis indicates my addition.) Nothing
in this restriction is meant to reduce Fair Use rights, for example the right to
describe a program in a manual as "derived from Thunderbird".


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