>>>>> "Sergio" == Sergio Brandano <sb@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> writes:
Sam> Under US law ...
Sergio> Well, we are under international copyright here.
I note you don't claim "international copyright *law*" here. As it
stands, international (copyright) treaties always have to be
*implemented* by local (=national) law. Which can vary in details...
Sergio> My observation was that "Mailing Lists" (Debian's or
Sergio> otherwise) are suddenly claiming copy-rights as if they
Sergio> were officially registered periodicals, and that such a
Sergio> claim is not legal.
No Debian mailing list is claiming copyright on your postings. Show
me the "(c) Debian" under your postings in the archives and I'd
believe you.
Sergio> Please note that we are talking about "mail" here
Sergio> (we are not talking about "articles" or other forms
Sergio> of literature), and mail is subject to more strict
Sergio> rules withing the general copyright code.
Can you cite anything in the Berne convention or related treaties?
AFAIK, copyright doesn't give a fuck about "mail"/"non-mail". Could
be wrong, of course... but you have to *prove* me wrong, handwaving
won't cut it.
Sergio> Mail is in fact private, in the US as well as any modern
Sergio> country. In the UK, for example, there are only two person
Sergio> who can read an addressed mail: the receiver and the
Sergio> Queen.
Which has nothing at all to do with copyright law. (It's *copy*right,
not *read*right, BTW)
Sergio> By posting to a "mailing list", you are posting to a
Sergio> number of people; it is like making a xerox of your mail,
Sergio> then post it to a number of people. The mere fact that you
Sergio> are posting to 100 friends rather than 1, does not make
Sergio> your mail a journal article.
Good example... now imagine this thing would go to court (which would
be your logical next/final step, if we (Debian) don't comply with your
wishes. Doesn't seem like we will...). Try to imagine telling this
to a judge... but tell him/her the *real* picture:
You: "I wrote a letter to a friend. He xeroxed it and mailed it to a
list of my friends."[1]
Judge: "And you know who's on that list?"
You: "Uhm,... No, your honor, I don't. Not exactly, anyway."
Judge: "Well, who *is* on this list?"
You: "Uhm, anybody who wanted to be."
Judge: [speechless]
You: "Anybody could tell my friend, Deborah Ian, that he wanted to
receive these mails, and Deb-Ian put him on the list."
That's the *real* picture. Guess what any judge would do? I'll leave
that to the imagination of the reader.
Sergio> [...] Electronic-Mail is Mail. As such, it is private,
Sergio> unless there is an "explicit agreement" that says
Sergio> otherwise.
Posting *indirectly* to a list of people that you can't even name (for
starters, just tell me how *many* people read *this very mail*) does
not imply a great deal of privacy to me.
[Rest deleted]
Bye, J
[1] I've known a number of christian missionaries, and some of them
have done their newsletters that way: mail one to a friend in their
home country, who then copies it and sends it to the people on a list.
*But* in those cases the writers of the mail *knew* who was on that
list...
PS: Sorry if some of this sounds inflammatory. I tried as hard as I
could to stay calm, but probably failed...
--
Jürgen A. Erhard juergen.erhard@gmx.net phone: (GERMANY) 0721 27326
My WebHome: http://members.tripod.com/Juergen_Erhard
"Perl Programmers are from Mars,
Python Programmers are from Yorkshire" -- Alex in c.l.py
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