More info Re: Good cell phone to use as modem with Debian? cable? bluetooth?
On Wed, Dec 14, 2005 at 09:06:34PM -0700, Nate Duehr wrote:
> Originally I wrote:
> > [about what I just found out is called DUN (dialup networking)]
>
> I used to do this also with a Kyocera phone. Worked well, Verizon used
> to just charge minutes for their 14.4k connectivity.
They still do as far as I know, but non-primetime minutes are now
unlimited, so it's not too much of a hassle.
It appears that this is possible with the Motorola E815, as described
at the very end of this page:
http://www.nuclearelephant.com/papers/e815seem.html
The question that remains is: does this work over bluetooth, over the
USB cable or both?
I'm leaning more towards the Motorola since I've read that the LG has
problems hanging on to calls where reception is not optimal. Reviews
here:
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/lg/vx8100.html
> I'll share with you some observations since I've been going through this
> process here recently also, changing things around again... some of the
> stuff below may be COMPLETELY wrong, but it's my view of everything I've
> researched so far...
Thanks a bunch! Very informative.
> >...
> >available in different phones and that they routinely cripple the
> >firmware so you can't (for instance) use bluetooth to transfer files.
>
> Yes, they cripple a specific feature in Bluetooth on ALL of their
> current phones. Buried in their website deep in the data support
That sucks big time. Makes you want to desert and go to another
carrier, which I might still do since I'm not bound by a contract.
> section they show that they DO allow Bluetooth tethering to only one
> device, and their salespeople tell me that the newer style Blackberry
> and the $49.95 data plan for that phone also allows tethering.
Having never used bluetooth before, I'm confused. Do you mean that you
can establish a bluetooth connection to just one external device from
the cell phone/blackberry or that Verizon only offers one device with
bluetooth that allows tethering?
> People have found ways to turn the Bluetooth profiles back on, but
> Verizon started sending letters to "abusers" last week, shutting off
> their accounts and charging large fines.
This is bizarre. Doesn't the speed at which you can connect to
Verizon's data service depend on settings that only they can set at
their servers/routers/whatever? Why would (say) changing the bluetooth
profile to enable transfer of files (if this is possible) or any other
bluetooth setting cause their lawyers to go apoplectic?
When I got my old phone, the low speed (14.4K) connection mode wasn't
working until they did something on their end. I was told that the
high speed mode is enabled by default and since I wasn't paying for
such service, data mode wasn't working.
> It's not a good time to be a Verizon customer if you want data, because
> they've just spent a lot of money on their EV-DO network (theoretical
> maximum, 2Mb/s to a single phone on a single tower under perfect
> conditions), and they want to recoup the costs. They want everyone to
> buy the data cards and the $59 all-you-can-eat plan, but there's catches
> with that too... see below.
Politics and greed... The customer as cash cow to be milked.
> >I started with a careful look at the LG VX8100 and Motorola E815.
>
> Sorry, I haven't looked at these, but www.howardforums.com is another
> "interesting" place to start looking for advanced info on just about any
> phone these days, including most of the hacks, from what I've found.
Interesting too. Thanks.
> ...
> >[ about cables]
It appears that (at least for the E815) THE cable to have is a USB cable
with a charge port, as that allows low level access, per the
nuclearelephant web site above. I hope it is possible to transfer files
via this cable and that the external memory card slot has not been
disabled by Verizon. Where else can you then store the pictures you
take? 40M of builtin memory is not that much.
> [ about T-Mobile, Cingular ]
On this subject, in case I decide to dump Verizon. What is the
consensus out there as to which cellullar carrier is the best deal for
linux data connectivity, and still has good voice coverage?
> Verizon phones don't have the bluetooth profile necessary to connect a
> laptop for data purposes. They want you to buy their high speed data
> card.
Then I presume that the DUN profile enabled by # #DIALUP only applies
to the USB cable?
> (They also hide a HUGE number of "not allowed" activities for the high
> speed cards in the fine print and can turn even those off for
> "excessive" data use. Nice, eh? That one's supremely bad... tell
> people that they can get "unlimited" high speed connectivity and then
> put limits on it in the fine print. Downloading a CD is reported to be
> enough traffic that you'll get "flagged" as an excessive user on their
> network, but not a lot of reports of that yet, so take with a grain of
> salt.)
All I can hope is that the competition catches up in coverage, features
and quality and that the competitive pressure forces verizon to be
more customer oriented. If I end up changing carriers I'm definitely
going to let them know that it's their corporate attitude and the
crippleware that did it. Everyone else that dumps them should do the
same, maybe at some point they'll notice.
> My research also shows that Cingular used to allow (well, ignored
> really) Bluetooth tethering (as it's called) with their data plan added
> onto the phone service, but they're getting more negative toward this.
> They appear to be ready to follow in Verizon's footsteps, and start
> cracking down, but people ARE tethering on Cingular, and they don't
> appear to cripple their phone's Bluetooth like Verizon has been for a
> long time now. Having the right data plan to avoid overage charges
> appears to be CRITICAL on Cingular's network, also.
I'm confused again. How does what you do with a local connection (from
the phone to the laptop) affect the connection speed between the phone
and the provider's towers? My old phone supported at least 38.4k
through the rs-232 cable but I still got 14.4 out of the cell
connection. USB data transfers are much faster than anything that can
go over the air. Are they also complaining about USB "tethering"? :-)
What am I missing?
> T-Mobile and Sprint still appear to completely allow tethering and don't
> complain about it as long as you have the appropriate data plan added to
> the phone. I discarded Sprint early-on in my search so I don't know the
In my case, I presume the "data plan" is the included 14.4Kbs connection
that is possible, using minutes as you would when talking. Why would
tethering have any bearing on that?
> ...
>
> T-Mobile also sells their Sony/Ericsson GC79 and one newer model dual
> 802.11 and GPRS cards, and their network is not yet high-speed. 56K
> max. For a fixed rate of $29.95 without a qualifying phone plan, and
> $19.95 with one -- it's an awfully easy way to make Linux "just work" on
> celluar data... at a slow data rate. With ndiswrapper you can also use
Ok. So it looks like T-Mobile is the way to go if I dump verizon.
For a little more than a real (land phone) dialup connection, I can
get equivalent data access.
> ...
> The bad news on T-Mobile is that the phone does NOT have the ASN enabled
> for IP access if you don't have the all-you-can-eat data plan, at all.
> Apparently they send this down when you activate data.
So the slow speed mode is not available at all...
> They also (for some dumb reason), completely hid the native e-mail
> application Motorola provides on the phone itself that will do POP3 and
> IMAP, and instead push you to use their web-based system through the WAP
> browser. Dumb. Why do that? Getting the e-mail client back is
> supposedly possible via a hack if you're willing to reflash the phone,
> remove all the T-Mobile branding and screens and go back to a stock
> Motorola flash of code... supposedly. I haven't attempted this, and may
> not... we'll see how brave I get.
What is wrong with the cellular industry? (Rhetorical question)
> ...
> [ very useful info deleted ]
>
> AFAIK, Verizon's completely crippled and will call you a thief and
> disable your service if you manage to enable high-speed data services
> through bluetooth or cable tethering unless you have the data plans.
Ahh... So the same setting that allows bluetooth OBEX (object exchange)
which if I understand correctly is what allows you to transfer files
via the bluetooth interface to the laptop, also enables the high speed
service? What does tethering actually enable or let you do?
> Even then their reps don't understand it, and would rather you had their
> PCMCIA card.
>
> Because the phones use the same profiles to connect to the computer via
> Bluetooth whether you're using high-speed of low-speed data services,
> Verizon simply cripples the Bluetooth to avoid the "problem".
No wonder I don't understand. Verizon is cutting its ears off so they
don't smell the stink they're causing. So, the problem is... what
exactly?
> This makes it very difficult for you to tether. It *might* be
> permissable to tether using a cable and only use your minutes for low
> speed data, but I really can't find anything that states this either way
> right now... they're in transition and they really want you to buy the
> high speed card and stuff it in your laptop... so their reps are all
> quite confused, as usual.
Well, no chance that I'm going to pay $80/month for a connection or
two every six months, which is all I'm likely to need.
>[ about getting to the GPS data as NMEA output]
Ok. Bleeding edge item. Not likely any time soon.
> >[ about syncing the address book]
>
> This is very phone-specific. With the RAZR (as an example), you have to
> ...
Ok, one more item I can't really count on, at least in the near future.
I've just read another response from someone that syncs a treo 650. So
at least there's something to have as a reference. Whether it will work
with the phone I end up choosing (and right now the Motorola E815 is the
likely candidate, IF I stay with verizon) is an open question. I can
count on entering the phone numbers manually, sigh...
Incidentally, I have read somewhere that verizon wasn't even supplying,
at some point in time, software/drivers to sync outlook to one of their
phones...
> I'll let you know if/when I finally get the RAZR working on T-Mobile.
> Probably do a write-up on my website also. But I am waiting for
> confirmation that my earlier contract has expired for the GC-79.
I'll also keep the list updated as to what I find out.
> ...
> If it does, you might be able to do something like move to T-Mobile, add
> the $19.95 all-you-can-eat data plan, buy a used GC-79 on eBay and just
> move the SIM card... moving the SIM isn't super "easy" on these tiny
> phones, but it should be do-able... gotta love GSM having those!
Mmm... If I move to T-mobile, could I not use a data-capable phone to
talk voice and bits at different times? Why would I need to change
SIM cards? I haven't bought a phone yet, so if I moved over I would
get T-mobile's (hopefully uncrippled) phone.
> Hopefully that helps... I'm as confused as you are, but working on it! ;-)
Very much, thanks! I'll keep working at it.
>...
> Nate
Augustine
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