Re: [debian-knoppix] Knoppix installed on HD: still not a standard Debian!
I quite agree.
There are tons of uses for Knoppix. From a 'simple' demo CD to a full
production server.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Liechti" <cliechti@gmx.net>
To: "Gilles Pelletier" <gilpel@altern.org>
Cc: <debian-knoppix@linuxtag.org>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: [debian-knoppix] Knoppix installed on HD: still not a standard
Debian!
> Gilles Pelletier wrote:
> > On August 1, 2003 12:52 pm, you wrote:
> >
> >>Klaus _will_ NOT support intsallation of Knoppxi to HD. This is
> >>not the aim of Knoppix!!!
> >
> > I suppose you made a typo here: you mean it's not the aim of
> > Knopper. Because if you look at the forums, you'll find that
> > though, just like Achim, users think Knoppix can be very helpful
> > as a Live-CD, they're really craving to install it on their HD
> > because it works so well.
>
> you still dont understand how it works, right?
>
> > If Knoppix was a private company looking forward to "keep the
> > customer satisfied", HD installation would have been a thing done
> > months ago.
>
> nope, you didn't understand...
>
> > That's why there's no reason for hype about Linux: we're loosing
> > the game. There is something wrong about the development model.
> > Linux is developed "en vase clos" (in uncommunicating vessels? :)
> > by developpers who don't give a damn about end users. If they're
> > not satisfied, they should learn programming, and that's it! What
> > remains to be seen is what programmers will think when their
> > dentist turns out to be another programmer...
>
> you dont understand how the developement of linux works. you should also
> note that the platform "linux" contains thousends of subprojects. the
> linux kernel is an other one.
> it's a great operarating system because it is developed that way.
> "release ealry and often" is a key concept for the kernel, other
> projects may choose the same strategy or an other. it is a good concept
> especialy when the developer never meet each other. the developement is
> coordinated through mailinglists and IRC chats. releasing eraly ensures
> that the code is used and that bugs are found when they are easy to fix,
> releasing often reduces the amount of double work.
>
> and you should not throw all developers in one pot. the linux platform
> is developed by thousends of individuals. you can not say that none of
> them cares about users, some sure do.
>
> [...]
> > With some chance you can find that old boot floppy and it's still
> > working... (Case with Slackware)
>
> other people on this list use knoppix to rescue their systems and don't
> use boot floppies any more ;-)
>
> [...]
> > Then came Knoppix, which had a good development model and seemed
> > to care about end-users the way Windows freeware developpers do.
> > IT WORKED without wondering and pondering for hours. Like
> > everybody, I wanted to install it a year ago.
> >
> > Unfortunately, KK, you know that guy who's put Knoppix together,
> > says he doesn't give a damn about HD installation. Christian
> > Perle got to understand the inner workings of Knoppix to write a
> > script only to give up after a few months. (Busy, pissed off of
> > being a hidden feature? God knows!)
>
> i'm sure HE knows. i don't think he has given up or is offended by
> something. his installer worked for many people and he may not have to
> motivation to do a bigger installer. and don't forget that all the
> developers for knoppix work in their free time, they are not paid to do
so.
>
> > Now, you, Fabian Franz, are also learning the inner workings and
> > starting so much from scratch that you say you can't produce a
> > boot floppy yet, which means it's still no use installing Knoppix
> > on HD. What will happen if you get busy, pissed off after 9
> > months while nobody is overseeing the project? Somebody will
> > start from scratch again?
>
> what is your problem with that? your against other people devoting their
> free time to a project? nobody forces you to use the programs they
produce.
>
> > Will there be a 3th, a 4th, a 10th year of Linux on the desktop? I
> > mean, is there still anybody here to think that the
> > ready-when-it's-ready philosophy will make the grade?
>
> it the only philosophy that works, until somebody spends a lot of mony
> and hires the developers and puts them in one room.
> or would you like to be forced to finish something on date what you are
> doing it as hobby?
>
> [...]
> > It's driving me
> >
> > N N U U TTTTTTTTTT SSSSSSS
> > N N N U U T S
> > N N N U U T S
> > N N N U U T S
> > N N N U U T S
> > N N N U U T S
> > N NN UUU T SSSSSSS
>
> yeah, we can see it...
> maybe switch of the PC for some time and relax with a book or so.
>
> > God damned stupid programmers!
>
> you go too far. you are insulting a lot of people. i don't see a reason
> why anybody should help you get your problems fixed when you treat
> people that way.
>
> > They remind me of an uncle of mine
> > who was a mechanic. He could take a whole car down to pieces to
> > the last bolt and put it back together. Since everybody came to
> > him with the vaguest approximative mechanical concepts, he
> > thought everybody was crazy and he was the king of the world in
> > any of its aspect.
> >
> > Today, programmers are like mechanics 30 years ago. When they are
> > not "ruled" inside a company like Microsoft or Apple, they think
> > they are the kings of the world and nobody has anything to teach
> > them.
>
> absolutely not. have not yet met a programmer with megalomania.
>
> programming is a creative and very complex art. even simple projects
> contain thousands of instructions - much more parts than any real word
> products, except the space shuttle maybe ;-)
> consider that a software has to work on many different computers each
> with different setup. a programmer is no clairvoyant, he can not foresee
> each bug, but all programmers try to make error free programs.
>
> > But, IMHO, what the Linux world needs now is the dreaded SUITS,
> > for planning and organisation!!!
>
> that work for no or almost no money...
>
> groups that do lobbying and fight against unfair rules should be more.
> there are many companies out there that try to steal the users rights. :-(
>
> > So, what can I say, I'm a dummy since I'm not a programmer and Mr
> > Knopper will continue doing things his way.
>
> yes and his way is quiet ok. it produces the best bootable CD that is
> out there.
>
> chris
>
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