Re: [debian-knoppix] So, Mr Knopper, are you or aren't you anti-Microsoft? (Was: Software patent?)
Hello Gilles,
On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 02:43:32PM -0400, Gilles Pelletier wrote:
> On September 2, 2003 02:09 am, Klaus Knopper wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Sep 01, 2003 at 03:48:38PM -0400, Gilles Pelletier wrote:
> > > Hey, beware Mr Knopper! Pretty soon you're going to sound
> > > anti-Microsoft...
> >
> > Why? I am talking about software patents being bad for the economy.
> > There are independent studies about this. What does this have to do with
> > MS?
>
> I'm afraid you forgot to quote the following text:
>
> > Kai, are you aware that MS is one of the largest software patent
> > holders, and as part of BSA lobby, one of the originators of the current
> > pro-softwarepatent draft?
I do not see anything that would be "anti-microsoft" in this quote,
sorry.
Every large software vendor who holds software patents is probably
interested in keeping and extending them. That's business. Just not
mine.
> > Right. I'm just not comfortable with things that have no technical
> > solution.
>
> And I understand this but those problems as you now know can put an end to
> your technical research. Please, just don't tell me you will continue
> programming for yourself in your basement whatever happens.
Patents don't keep you from developing software for your private use.
They just keep you from selling or distributing your work. So, yes, I
will continue using Knoppix for my own work, I will probably just not be
able to distribute it anymore.
> > Sorry, I have been on vacation for a few weeks, and had not much
> > bandwidth on the ship.
>
> If ever somebody took some well-disserved vacations, you're the one. Still, I
> believe that, as a live CD, Knoppix has achieved a degree of perfection other
> distros can only envy. Isn't it entering in a maintenance rather than a
> development stage?
Uhm, no. As long as Free Software develops at incredible speed,
there are always changes and updates, and Knoppix is a good platform for
testing new and exciting features in development. If there is a "final"
version of GNU/Linux one day, this is probably the end of the world, so
I would like to keep Knoppix as "BETA" software for testing, at least
the (still) public available version.
> I believe so and the fact that it hasn't changed for more than a month
> reflects this, not just you talking vacations. So what next?
Kernel 2.4.22 with cloop 1.02, the "toram" boot option and probably
other stuff that is still in my mailbox.
...If answering email like yours does not keep me too busy. No offense. ;-)
> > > Just as people say you 'invented" automatic installation whereas a lot of
> > > work
> >
> > I didn't. I did not invent bootable CDs either.
>
> I'm glad we agree on this :) But you're the one who crossed the line
[...euphorism deleted...]
> > I am not anti-Microsoft. Why should I?
>
> Because Microsoft will in no way accept that Linux survives.
Disagreed, for quite a few reasons, but you won't get me to discuss
philosophical stuff on a developer mailing list.
Just one thing, "Linux" alone is irrelevant. Free Software is what
counts.
> > I can't use Windows by myself
> > because it is way too complicated for me,
>
> Continue to pretend that you don't want to make Knoppix installable because
> you'd have to provide support, and you might soon -- say, within 5 years --
> have to learn how to use Microsoft products.
Well, maybe 5 years from now, Windows has matured and is finally
productive and stable enough and usable for simple people like me, who
just want to do their work? I'm always willing to learn something new
and useful. We'll see. :-)
> > but some peoeple seem to get
> > along with it well, and I'm not trying to talk anybody in switching to
> > something else if he/she is comfortable with his/her current system.
>
> That's not the point. The point is Micosoft is taking a bit of everybody's
> money not only to establish a monopoly on software, but on knowledge in
> general. YOU KNOW THAT! So why the hell are you acting so stubbornly?
Look, if people are willing to pay "useage fees" for "rented" software
instead of OWNING free software and having the right to modify and copy
it freely to fit their needs, is it your or my business to keep them
from doing this? What do you expect me to do about it? We have freedom
of choice, which is good.
> > Still, Microsoft is apparently generating a lot of business for me and
> > other consultants who are providing Free Software service and support,
> > so I have no reason to complain about anything. "Guaranteed future
> > business".
>
> So, you can't use Windows because it's too complicated for you, but you
> provide support for Windows...
No, I'm not providing support for Windows. I don't know enough about how
Windows works in order to do this. I'm providing support for Free
Software, because I can read the source, understand how it functions and
change things if necessary.
> > Which "game"? What are you talking about?
>
> I'm talking about the game Microsoft has always played: getting rid of all
> competiton. Even though Linux is open source, it will have its way if nothing
> is done VERY soon. Any way to achieve the gaol will be ok: software patents,
> Palladium, you name it!
The vote about software patents is democratic, so, if the parliament
members as representants of the people in their countries would still
put the european software industry out of business, even after reading
all the studies and petitions and complaints that give a decent hint
about the fact that software patents may be a very bad idea, it is
apparently what we deserve. No? What is YOUR recommendation?
[...stuff deleted...]
Phew, well, this is too much politics for me, sorry. I'd like to stay
with the things I know how to do, so let's go on with the technical
stuff.
> You made Debian a snap to use. But people tell me "Knoppix is very nice, but
> is it installable? Can I have confidence in it as a production system?" And
> you know the answer to this is no.
It is installable (Debian is installable, too, and all the other
GNU/Linux distributions as well), and since it is free software, you may
feel free to found a company that specializes in installing and
selling Knoppix packages. What or who keeps you from doing that?
> You don't have ties to any monetary power. You're still free to go where no
> one has gone before.
Sorry, this is not "star trek". ;-)
> If you don't do what you must, the game is lost.
So, what "must" I do?
> Nobody knows better the installation system you've devised. You might decide
> to use it for installing Debian stable or testing and unstable, that's your
> choice. You may decide to have people contributing or do it alone once again.
> But the fact remains: even though you're just a technician who wants to do
> his little thing, you're central at most critical turning point in the history
> of humanity.
Sorry, I think you are way out of line here.
> Call it God's will or a throw of the dices, that's the way it is. Despite what
> the books say, we don't have whole control over our destiny. You are in
> politics deep down to your neck.
I hope not.
> > If this is not possible
> > anymore because of software patents, I will just have to keep on
> > teaching and in general work more in education and consulting, as long
> > as this is not "patented", too.
>
> One of the main goal of globalization is to patent education, to have it run
> by companies. So, if teching kids how to use Microsoft products is not your
> goal in life, think very well about your next move.
I think I'll just continue to do what I'm doing. :-)
I apologize if you think it's not "enough". Me doing the politician and
evangelist thing would most certainly not make this world a better
place. But maybe you can make small improvements by just trying to do
the things you know how to do, with the most dedication and efficiency.
Regards
-Klaus Knopper
PS: I think we should not continue this thread on a technically
oriented mailing list. If you feel you have to, please write directly to
me. But, your decision.
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