[debian-knoppix] Knoppix installed on HD, and alternatives....
(This is a re-send, since my first transmission was made without being
subscribed to the list. I also corrected a couple of typos at the same
time, being ever the perfectionist...)
(Emailed directly and copied to the mailing list)
[Quoting Gilles Pelletier]
> Do you believe I should recommand Slack to
> Windows Linux-Wannabees?
> I said I also had problems with Mandrake.
> I tried SuSE 7.1 . According to all reviewers, it was
> the best invention on earth since sliced bread. I never
> succeeded to install it. My list of srupidities was so
> long , I asked for my money back threatening the
> salesman to but my list on local newsgroup if he
> didn't comply. He understood.
Though I woudn't have gone so far as you, I did experience odd and
unsatisfying results in my several attempts to use (and like!) Suse...
> Unfortunately, I don't like SuSE no-real-iso development
> model and I won't play this game again to see if it works.
Same here, I've written them off as far as I'm concerned. Oh, one can find
some kind of bootable "net install" CD for the latest Suse, but even this
gave me trouble (including overwriting my MBR when I told it not to, and
after it cheerfully accepted my instruction NOT to do it...)
> One of Red Hat directors' is Bob Young, the silly clown
> who decided to introduce Bed Rat on the Stock Exchange.
> I want to have nothing to do with money making machines
> such as Xandros, Licorice :) and Lindows.
Then you may be missing just the right solution to your problems. I paid my
dues over a year ago by signing-up as a "Lindows Insider" even before their
initial release, just so I could follow its evolution to maturity. I'm
telling you, this one is quickly getting to the point of being excellent for
the total newbie. Oh, it's persnickety when you use it on multi-boot
machines (insists on forcing its LILO boot manager on you, though I found a
way to tame it by reading their forums) or multi-monitor machines (totally
ignores the BIOS selection of main monitor, but again that's been worked
around), and it pretty much REQUIRES a broadband Internet connection to use
it pleasantly, but as of the current version 4 it's right up your alley
(i.e. very little "beta testing" for the general mass of end users).
Lindows 4 now gets a permanent place in the multi-boot menu on one of my
machines, and a cautious recommendation to curious end-users. And since
they offer a low-cost bootable CD version, you can try them out on *your*
hardware before shelling out the full amount for the HD installation CD. In
fact, if Knoppix supports your hardware OK, chances are very good that
Lindows 4 will work. One caution: they're NOT joking when they're stating
it requires 256M of RAM to operate. A non-profit client of mine has
public-access machines with 128M on 833 MHz P-IIIs; Knoppix 3.2 boots in
normal time and pretty much FLIES on them; LindowsCD takes forever to boot
(at least 5 minutes, but I didn't time it) and is hopelessly sluggish for
doing anything afterwards.
I've read mostly very good reviews and comments about Xandros, and may yet
buy it both to evaluate its possible recommendation to clients and
acquaintances, as well as to encourage further developments of Open-Source
operating systems, especially those based on Debian.
I can't tell you much about Lycoris: Since it is a derivative from Caldera
Linux, I have recently erased all traces of previously downloaded ISOs and
other files with their name on it. I did this at about the same time I
threw in the garbage a full package of SCO OpenServer 5, with manuals, CDs,
and even a tape (I think). ("Now, don't be wishy-washy Renald: tell us how
you REALLY feel about SCO's war on Linux...." ;-)
> What's left?Certainly not Gentoo! Vector, maybe...
> But the latest version is still in development and I
> would think it's better to let the distro mature before
> giving it a try.
> What do you think I should suggest to Window-ers?
Having periodically dipped my toes in the Linux installation and
experimentation "business" ever since Slackware came as 3 dozen floppy
images (using a pre-1.0 kernel) downloaded from BBSes, I have come to the
following tentative conclusions:
1) The RPM packaging world is a LONG way from fixing its dependency-hell
issues, so that eliminates many distros right off the bat;
2) The TAR.TGZ ("zipped archive") packaging world can't be much better off
than the RPM crowd on that issue, so none of that for me, nor for the people
I advise;
3) The source-compilation world is possibly interesting for pioneers and
hardcore techies, but is nowhere near ready for the general public to "buy"
into;
4) The Debian world has the best packaging system, though of course nothing
is truly perfect. Therefore, unless I were to venture into the domain of the
*BSDs, Debian and its derivatives are the best way to go (or the least
objectionable, to put it in reverse logic).
This being said, the following additional observations are offered (but You
Mileage May Vary, of course):
a) Debian stable ("woody") is, within reason, a very good recommendation for
a server, but a mediocre one for desktop use, since the open-source
_desktop_ world is so young and many of the best developments have come out
very recently, and "stable" is and most likely always will be woefully
behind the times...;
b) Debian's "testing" (currently "sarge") and "unstable" (now and forever
"sid") are not secure enough, in and of themselves, to entrust one's
precious data to them, whether it's for a server or a desktop-oriented
workstation, unless you're a Linux guru (at least!).
c) Knoppix is successfully borrowing from them to create its own unique
mix, but with a LOT of additional "sweat equity" put in by KK and other
participants to make sure everything fits well together despite being near
the "bleeding edge". As a read-only bootable OS, with all user data/prefs
on removable media (USB memory sticks, maybe?), this may well be a good
choice for many...;
d) Lindows 4 is now based on "testing", with of course a lot of additional
time and energy devoted to security, plus the other unique aspects of this
product (eye candy, broadband "single-click" app download and installation,
etc...), so is a safe (enough) recommendation for HD installed Linux;
e) There's another Debian-based distro that offers good promise for quicker
evolution towards (current) open-source desktop technology than Debian
"stable": Libranet. When they recently released their version 2.8, they
simultaneously re-released a free version of their previous 2.7, calling it
the "2.7-Classic" release. FInd a download of it and give it a try; it's
low-risk, very polite in its handling of the MBR, *does* support the
creation of a boot-floppy <wink>, and works even on fairly low-powered
machines...
And finally, some notes on my notes ("Will he EVER stop typing?" ;-)...:
1) Re (c) above: one of my partitions holds a HD installation of Knoppix
3.2, performed about a month ago with the text-mode "knx-hdinstall" script
(hard to find about, but works just fine for me!). Despite the risks
involved, and having read lots of warnings and advice from the Knoppix
forums, I then took the plunge and upgraded it first to "testing" (in two
steps: "apt-get upgrade", then "apt-get dist-upgrade"), then to "unstable"
(again in two steps). Since then, I have twice now, about once per week,
done a two-step sync with "unstable" ("upgrade" first, then "dist-upgrade"),
just to see what would break, if anything, and so far I still boot to a KDE
desktop (now 3.1.3 instead of the original 3.1.2), and I can still browse
the Web and read Knoppix forums and other on-line places, which is all I'm
asking of it for now. Basically, I'm using it to try and track the
evolution of Debian "unstable" for a while. So far, I have noticed many
other OS components have been upgraded as well, and all without apparent
damage. We'll see.......
2) Re (e) above: you may (or may not) have trouble dealing with the Libranet
guys, since they're based in British Columbia, which most likely makes them
unilingual anglophone Canadians.... ;-) (Explanation for the crowd: this is
merely a <wink> and a <nudge in the ribs> to Gilles due to his recent
flame-fest in "can.internet.highspeed" on the language issue, always a
popular political topic in our part of the world...)
Good luck!
_ Renald _
\_____/
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