Mediation not Politics (Re: removal of svenl from the project)
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Abstract
"Please can't we all just get along?" Ok, I'm not quite that naive, but
I would like to see (or proof of previous attempts at) conciliation
before such a highly political approach as a formal expulsion request to
a personnel issue.
Further comments follow,
Andres Salomon wrote:
> I am going through the expulsion process to have Sven Luther removed
> from the project. The process is outlined here:
> <http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2005/08/msg00005.html>,
> and I have already completed step 1.
IANADDY but I have followed some of the mailing lists for a while and
this is ludicrous.
> Sven's behavior has always been combative (and some might argue
> hostile), but this is beyond what is acceptable. He threatens bodily
Sven is certainly not quiet, however from what I have seen of type of
response his suggestions and posts get, he is justifiably frustrated. I
am personally surprised he hasn't gotten disgusted with the project and
left, or greatly reduced participation, of his own volition, as others,
most recently 'Joey', have done. Perhaps it is for the same reason I
will be helping with the debtags tagging (regardless of whether or not
that can lead to being a dd), namely believing in the ideals of the
Debian Project.
I think he feels personally attacked by rejections of his ideas, but I
haven't seen anything other than initial knee jerk rejections of his
ideas either, even ones that later are accepted. He also does something
that I wouldn't, which is to be a highly active participant in the
public forums. Personally I prefer to spend time working on projects,
and leave mailing lists and such as tertiary or lower in importance,
however a preference is all that is, not The Way Things Should Be(tm).
I think mediation by a neutral third party would be useful here, and
would be far more constructive than attempting to expel Sven. With the
exception of the quote Andres posted, I haven't seen sven be abusive
(emotional, yes, abusive, no) and I've seen a lot that of responses and
behaviour on the parts of developers like joeyh that would tend to piss
me off too. (The difference is that I'd probably just say 'the h*ll
with you', and work where I was appreciated).
I don't think Sven is anywhere near perfect, but I haven't seen any
attempt at a peaceable solution either. Perhaps my history doesn't go
far enough back.
If Sven was willing to accept the DPL as a mediator, would those who are
complaining about him also do so? And, what, besides disliking his
communication style, are the beefs with Sven? And if that is the
primary beef, what would 'make it better' without eliminating his
ability to argue for his ideas (which seem to get dismissed out of hand,
but to this outsider seem to make sense)? Has there been any attempt to
work with Sven on his communication style, or, as seems to me, has it
been primarily hostility on the other side as well?
"Please can't we all just get along?" Ok, I'm not quite that naive, but
I would like to see (or proof of previous attempts at) conciliation
before such a highly political approach as a formal expulsion request to
a personnel issue.
Cheers,
Daniel
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