Bug#349354: why not yaird by default?
On Tue, Feb 28, 2006 at 11:17:36AM +0000, Stephen Gran wrote:
> > Please have a look at the patch, and show me how it is broken.
>
> Of course I've looked at the patch, that's how I came to the conclusion
> it's broken. Please don't jump to conclusions. Your patch makes the
> assumption that ide-generic will never be needed on any ppc hardware
Ok. so you believe that there may be a remote chance that ide-generic will be
needed on powerpc, this would mean that there would be no ide working without
it right. I mean, look into your dictionary for 'needed', as i guess it is
safe to say that is something that is 'needed' is missing, then it doesn't
work. Since it is working right now, it is proof enough that it is not needed.
If this will change in a random future, then it will be time enough to fix it
for such an hypothetical situation, so basically you are breaking a currently
existing case for some hypothetical future case, how logical.
> ever. This may be the case for you right now, but does not appear to me
> to be a safe assumption. This is exactly the sort of hack that leads to
Ah, yes. That is also what jonas claims. Please explaqin to me a scenario
where this assumption will not be broken. I mean, face it, the 'let's include
ide-generic' hack was activated for piix, via-ide, and third one i don't
remember. None of them have vocation to work in the main case on powerpc
hardware. I guess you could have via-ide pci cards in a powermac, but this is
far from being common, compared to the 1000+ users we have out there and i
have to do support for.
> more problems down the road, patched around with worse hacks then, ad
> nauseum. It is vastly more appropriate to fix the single real bug than
> to patch around it in all the places that trigger it.
Nope, the patch just disables the ugly hack erik and jonas enabled in the
first place. Notice also that even on x86 it is not clear that this hack is
needed in the majority of cases, as we only had a handful of reports about
this.
> > > The fact that this same bug exist(s|ed) in udev, mkinitramfs, and
> > > yaird indicates that there is a real bug in the kernel that is
> > > merely being
> >
> > I personally believe that the real bug is in ide-generic.
>
> Then fix it. You are a kernel maintainer, right?
The whole ide layer is going to go away in favour of the new libata
reimplementation, upstream is working on this, it is not quite mature enough
yet.
> > > triggered by all of these packages. Can you, as kernel maintainer,
> > > please spend your energy fixing the kernel bug that is causing all
> > > of this, instead of wasting my time bickering with Jonas? This bug
> > > rendered my laptop unbootable until Md patched around it.
> >
> > Yeah, how does you like it ? And i am in a situation where my RL work
> > does include doing support for 1000+ pegasos users out there, whose
> > debian install gets broken by jonas and erik's half-backed patch, and
> > erik is MIA, and jonas is not even interested in thinking about fixing
> > it. He never even replied to the bug report until i pointed it out in
> > erkelenz to him.
> >
> > So, the thing you are complaining about, is exactly the same i am
> > complaining about here.
>
> So, can you please fix it? Since you're a kernel team member, you are
> in a better position than either Jonas or myself to do something about
> it. Or is there some problem with fixing it the right way that I'm
> missing?
It is loadful of work, and it is not even clear what the problem is exactly,
and we don't have access to the hardware who exhibits the problem, and what
else more ...
So, instead of investigating this, both the yaird and initramfs-tools have
gone into doing ugly hacks, which broke the previously perfectly working
pegasos system, and jonas is plainly refusing to even think about it. I even
came quite friendly to him in erkelenz and said let's fix it together this WE,
and what, no he prefered to go into hours of polimicking about philospohical
reasons why it 'may' break in some undetermined future, and got angry at any
attempt on my part to show him the code or to explain to him that there is no
chance it may break. I mean he clearly decided that anything i may say is just
to be ignored, so what do you want ? And since the upstream is MIA, i only see
two solutions, takeover yaird, or let it be and go with initramfs-tools as
default, given that i don't speak perl, and even if i think yaird is the
better concept, well, there is not much choice of what to do.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
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