Why I wanted Sven to fuck himself (Was: Care to comment on plan for module building?)
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On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:45:30 +0100
Sven Luther <sven.luther@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> I still don't get why Jonas so suddenly took of with you and told me
> to go fuck myself
Let me illustrate through quoting IRC, since you seem to prefer that:
This is what directly led to my insulting you:
12:09 < jonas> svenl: Can we please focus on the topic?
12:10 < jonas> svenl: When who did (not) do what is irrelevant
12:10 < jonas> svenl: when what did (not) work is more interesting
12:10 < svenl> jonas: there is nothing to focus, Manoj is going to
either dictate his stuff unto us or we are going to drop k-p, there is
no middle way possible. 12:11 < jonas> svenl: End of discussion then.
Go fuck yourself. Hard!
So why am I that rude suddently, you ask? Well, let's go a little back
and find out why I asked you to change focus:
11:40 < Manoj> and kernel package ensure that /lib/modules/$(uname
- -r)/build always works 11:41 < svenl> Manoj: except for official kernel
packages, riught ? 11:41 < Manoj> whether you have installed a kernel
image on the local machine, or just have a kernel headers installed,
k-p packages always ensure that /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build works.
11:41 < jonas> so how to run a kernel without installing it? 11:41 <
Manoj> even for official kernels 11:41 < svenl> Manoj: not for official
Manoj> kernels. 11:41 < svenl> Manoj: since you are out to break it.
11:41 < Manoj> no matter what, /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/build always
works 11:41 < Manoj> svenl: grow up, and get a clue.
..
11:42 * svenl ignores Manoj.
Why on earth do you repeat yourself instead of clarify _why_ you
believe Manoj makes exceptions regarding official kernels when he
himself claims it "always works"?
Ok, so Manoj gives up on you and calls you childish. I agree that your
discussion technique is indeed childish.
(if Manoj would have reason to believe that you did not understand that
"uname -r" implies "works only on running kernel", then I would call
his discussion technique mean - but I do not have reason to believe so)
Well well - let's continue...
11:42 < jonas> svenl: Do you ignore me as well?
11:42 < svenl> nope, you did not insult me like Manoj did.
11:42 < jonas> svenl: then talk with me, and _do_ ignore Manoj as you
claim to do :-P ..
11:43 < jonas> svenl: oh - and talk with me about the topic, _not_
about Manoj!
Here I ask you to stick to the technical topic and not get personal.
Have a look back - even further back than quoted here, if you still
have the backlog around - and check out how frequently you get
personal in the discussion compared to Manoj.
11:45 < svenl> jonas: well, what is there to say ? we right now have
the build symlink correctly set, it worked for the past 6 month, and we
where almost ready to push for the proposal, and the new k-p wants to
break it all for no reason. .. 11:47 < jonas> svenl: Define "symlink
correctly set" - there seem to be some confusion about what that is...
You obviously do not want to play along. I try dig into the technical
part, but...
11:55 < svenl> jonas: [..explanation..] Manoj wants to break this.
11:56 < svenl> jonas: and have all users and third party module
packages do the KSRC thingy.
...you insist on throwing accusations.
You seem to see KSRC as being a pet thing for Manoj, so throws that at
him (through answering me). Thing is, using KSRC is not "Manoj fanatism"
but a sane way to go beyond building modules for the running kernel,
so...
11:56 < Manoj> no, it wont just work. You have to set KSRC
11:56 < Manoj> and you can just set KSRC in my scheme to, no additional
work, and everything just works 11:56 < Manoj> see, if you do not have
the image isntalled, the uname -r trick does not work 11:57 < Manoj>
so, again, it is KSRC=/lib/modules/fo vs
KSRC=/usr/src/linux-headers-foo 11:57 < Manoj> What is the damned
difference?
Have a look at that. Even persistently provoced Manoj manages to stay
technical for several lines before slipping in a single "damned"...
11:58 < svenl> Manoj: so why are you being so stuborn about it ?
11:59 < svenl> Just do it, we have been doing it for over 6 month now,
why didn't you complain back then ? 11:59 < svenl> this was amply and
publicly discussed.
You bring no technical arguments on the table...
11:59 < Manoj> since doing it my way, rather than a dance in the
postinst, requires far less code, and less code that can develop bugs
12:00 < Manoj> the way it stands, we have a clean, working, tested
solution, since kernel-package has had this behaviour forever 12:00 <
Manoj> I want less code, not more code
...Manoj tries again...
12:02 < svenl> Manoj: k-p and clean code are not something i would
mention in the same sentence.
...and again you provoke...
12:04 < Manoj> yeah, with your level of technical expertise, I would
expect no less 12:04 < jonas> svenl: The argument of "we have been
doing it for 6 months now" sounds odd compared to "the same as it has
been since 1996" 12:05 < svenl> jonas: well, but do you know that
previous to 6 month ago, the build symlinks was broken on 9/11 of all
arches around, and building modules for non-x86 was an horrible mess ?
12:05 < Manoj> not for packages created by k-p 12:06 < jonas> svenl:
using KSRC? .. 12:08 < jonas> possibly it has been a mess to build
without setting KSRC 12:08 < svenl> jonas: the build symlink was a
dangling symlink for much of sarge's live time, and Manoj didn't even
care to notice. .. 12:08 < jonas> svenl: care?
...and then we are at the quote that directly led to my insulting you.
Hope that clarified things, Sven. If not, then just forget about it (or
remember it eternally if you so desire).
Have a nice evening/morning/whatever everyone :-)
- Jonas
- --
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
- Enden er nær: http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
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