Joshua Kwan wrote:
Nathanael Nerode wrote:* Since I actually have an advansys card to test on, I should be able toconvert this driver to userland firmware loading without the annoyances ofa remote testing cycle.But how do you expect people to install Sarge on systems where the only mass storage controller is an advansys card? Certainly, telling people to download a bunch of firmware udebs first before they can install, or making them do so within the installer, is a huge setback in installer userfriendliness.
Non-free udebs CD.
(So first of all, please let me implore you to let this slide for Sarge, at the very least.I already intend to do so. On the rather straightforward grounds that it's no worse than what was in woody, and therefore it isn't a regression.
But eventually, if you keep up this crusade, installing Debian will involve having megabytes of firmware files at hand. Chances are that NIC drivers will get de-blobbed at some point, and will need firmware to work. Ooops. There goes the idea of downloading the firmware from the Internet at install time.Contact the microcode providers and ask them to provide source. That's by far the least destructive solution.I don't want to turn Debian into a speech-free, crippled distribution. That's not what I joined the project for. I suggest that you reconsider the long term effects of all this and perhaps try to come up with a less destructive to the situation (which I do believe is a valid one, within reason.)
Unfortunately, most of them appear to simply not be willing to talk at all, not even to say "no". :-P
Some of them already *have* provided freely-licensed source (Advansys); that microcode is of course just fine to have in the kernel.
Alternately, propose a GR to amend the Social Contract to allow non-free programs in main (under whatever limited circumstances you like). It quite obviously and clearly doesn't as of now, but feel free to try to change it if you think it should. I strongly encourage you to do so, as a matter of fact; if I were a DD, I'd even second it just to get it to a vote, though I would oppose it.
I find that the unwillingness of the pro-sourceless-microcode-in-main camp to actually try to make their views compatible with most DD's agreement to follow the Social Contract in Debian work rather undermines their argments; proposing a GR to legitimate this stuff would be a lot more honest than encouraging people to blatantly violate the SC in their Debian work.
(There's still the GPL-compatilibility issue, but in the case of properly licensed material like the Advansys microcode, userland firmware loading would presumably deal with that, and if the SC were amended to allow sourceless code in main, then the microcode could just be shipped along with the kernel, in the installer, etc.)