[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: improving the UX with the default KDE installation

On 02/04/17 00:11:40 CEST, Shawn Sörbom wrote:
> But for a good "out of the box" experience, many people expect a mail
> client. Look at Kubuntu. Personally kmail would be of the first packages I
> would install on any KDE system that I would set up for an "average" user.
> A default email solution is something any distro should have. For a KDE
> specific solution, I don't think there is much else out there. If this were
> to come to a vote I would say leave it in.

It could be interesting to have a poll (reddit anyone?)...

Anyway, I'm against having kmail installed by default, being it a dependency 
of general meta-packages, for a reason that I would like to show you all.

Let's make a simple exercise, shall we? Take a fresh installed Stretch with 
the default kde installation, something that should be suitable for an 
"average" user . Now, try to remove kmail (use case: an average user doesn't 
like it, he would like to remove it and having thunderbird instead):

>$ sudo apt autoremove kmail
>Reading package lists... Done
>Building dependency tree
>Reading state information... Done
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer
> required:
>   ant ant-optional apper apper-data baloo-kf5 ca-certificates-java
>   coinor-libcbc3 coinor-libcgl1 coinor-libclp1 coinor-libcoinmp1v5
>   coinor-libcoinutils3v5 coinor-libosi1v5 cups-pk-helper
>   debconf-kde-data debconf-kde-helper default-java-plugin default-jre
>   default-jre-headless dolphin dolphin4 fonts-crosextra-caladea
>   fonts-crosextra-carlito fonts-lato fonts-linuxlibertine
>   fonts-opensymbol fonts-sil-gentium fonts-sil-gentium-basic
>   gcj-6-jre-lib gir1.2-atspi-2.0 gir1.2-gnomekeyring-1.0
>   gir1.2-notify-0.7 gir1.2-wnck-3.0 gnome-orca hyphen-en-us
>   icedtea-8-plugin icedtea-netx icedtea-netx-common java-common
>   kaccessible kde-baseapps-bin kde-baseapps-data kde-icons-mono
>   kdeaccessibility kdepasswd kdesudo kfind kmag kmousetool
>   konqueror-nsplugins kpart-webkit kwrite libabw-0.1-1
>   libapache-poi-java libapache-pom-java libatk-adaptor
>   libatk-wrapper-java libatk-wrapper-java-jni libbase-java
>   libbcmail-java libbcpkix-java libbcprov-java
>   libboost-date-time1.62.0 libbrlapi0.6 libbsh-java libcdr-0.1-1
>   libclucene-contribs1v5 libcmis-0.5-5v5 libcommons-codec-java
>   libcommons-collections3-java libcommons-logging-java
>   libcommons-parent-java libdebconf-kde1 libdolphinvcs5 libdom4j-java
>   libe-book-0.1-1 libehcache-java libeot0 libetonyek-0.1-1
>   libexttextcat-2.0-0 libexttextcat-data libflute-java libfonts-java
>   libformula-java libfreehand-0.1-1 libgcj-bc libgcj-common libgcj17
>   libgltf-0.0-0v5 libgnome-keyring-common libgnome-keyring0
>   libharfbuzz-icu0 libhsqldb1.8.0-java libhyphen0 libisorelax-java
>   libitext-java libjaxen-java libjcommon-java libjdom1-java
>   libjpeg-turbo-progs libkf5baloowidgets-bin libkf5baloowidgets5
>   libkonq-common libkonq5-templates libkonq5abi1
>   libkonqsidebarplugin4a liblangtag-common liblangtag1 liblayout-java
>   liblimba0 libloader-java liblog4j1.2-java liblouis-data liblouis12
>   libmail-java libmspub-0.1-1 libmsv-java libmwaw-0.3-3
>   libmythes-1.2-0 libodfgen-0.1-1 liborcus-0.11-0 libpagemaker-0.0-0
>   libpentaho-reporting-flow-engine-java libpixie-java libpq5
>   libqaccessibilityclient0 librelaxng-datatype-java libreoffice
>   libreoffice-avmedia-backend-gstreamer libreoffice-base
>   libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-base-drivers libreoffice-calc
>   libreoffice-common libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw
>   libreoffice-help-en-us libreoffice-impress libreoffice-java-common
>   libreoffice-kde libreoffice-librelogo libreoffice-math
>   libreoffice-nlpsolver libreoffice-ogltrans libreoffice-pdfimport
>   libreoffice-report-builder libreoffice-report-builder-bin
>   libreoffice-script-provider-bsh libreoffice-script-provider-js
>   libreoffice-script-provider-python libreoffice-sdbc-hsqldb
>   libreoffice-sdbc-postgresql libreoffice-style-breeze
>   libreoffice-style-galaxy libreoffice-wiki-publisher
>   libreoffice-writer librepository-java librevenge-0.0-0 libruby2.3
>   libsac-java libsac-java-gcj libsaxonhe-java libserializer-java
>   libservlet3.1-java libtidy5 libturbojpeg0 libvisio-0.1-1 libwnck-3-0
>   libwnck-3-common libwpd-0.10-10 libwpg-0.3-3 libwps-0.4-4
>   libxerces2-java libxml-commons-external-java
>   libxml-commons-resolver1.1-java libxml-java libxmlbeans-java
>   libxom-java libxpp2-java libxpp3-java libxres1 lp-solve mythes-en-us
>   openjdk-8-jre openjdk-8-jre-headless polkit-kde-1 python3-brlapi
>   python3-cairo python3-cups python3-cupshelpers python3-louis
>   python3-pyatspi python3-smbc python3-speechd python3-uno python3-xdg
>   rake ruby ruby-did-you-mean ruby-minitest ruby-net-telnet
>   ruby-power-assert ruby-test-unit ruby2.3 rubygems-integration
>   system-config-printer system-config-printer-common
>   system-config-printer-udev task-desktop uno-libs3 ure x11-apps
>   x11-session-utils xbrlapi xinit xorg
> Use 'sudo apt autoremove' to remove them.
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   kde-baseapps kde-plasma-desktop kde-standard konq-plugins konqueror
>   task-kde-desktop
> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 6 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
> After this operation, 5809 kB disk space will be freed.

No offense to anyone, but just to emphasize the situation:  this - is - 
completely - insane - .

And now, try to behave like the "average" user and instead use a software 
manager with a GUI. Apper will ask you to remove 402 additional packages and 
the glitchy Discover (plasma-discover, installed by default) maybe will be 
ready to screw up your system without warning you (ok, maybe I'm exaggerating 
a little here but the risk is really high).

These are the effects of having non essential packages listed as dependencies 
in general-desktop-environment-oriented-meta-packages. IMHO it is not good for 
the users and it is not good for the sysadmins.


Reply to: