In <[🔎] 200904091114.11428.modestas@vainius.eu>, Modestas Vainius wrote: >> If Debian can't shoulder the burden of maintaining KDE, they shouldn't be >> packaging it. Debian maintainers should be ready to receive bug reports >> from Debian users. I should not have to run another distribution or >> compile KDE from source before I file a bug. >Well, I will clarify you a few facts now: > >2) We will probably never forward a new upstream bug reported to the Debian >BTS to KDE BTS (i.e. open a new bug) and we will not play proxy between the >user and upstream. This is part of being a maintainer. If you aren't willing to do it, you aren't being a very good maintainer. >3) If you don't like something, you can either: > >3a) do the job in the areas which are lacking in your opinion (the world is >not perfect). But please don't tell everybody else what to do. > >3b) switch to something else where the job is done better. 3c) Make an impassioned plea to get others to do the job. Especially others that *already* volunteered for that job. Heck, sometimes you make a bigger impact campaigning for volunteers instead of trying to do it all yourself. Plus, I'm not going to let you tell me what my choices are. I can determine that myself and take whatever action I feel would be best. >> >As Sune said, it's impossible for the Debian people to handle this, >> No its not. It takes effort. But that effort is required of every Debian >> maintainer. Can you think how fast a RFS on the debian-mentors list would >> be denied if accompanied by "I won't have time to deal with bugs, please >> file them all upstream."? >KDE is not a 20K source package. KDE is HUGE. Please do some background >research before telling something. Why do you think I don't understand the size of KDE? I do. I am a developer by trade and I have adventured in the KDE svn repository in search of the origin of a bug. My current job is porting millions of lines of code in multiple languages from AIX to Linux. >> I am NOT saying I don't appreciate the effort the maintainers are putting >> forth now. >That's exactly what you are saying. No, it's not. I love the new packages in unstable. I've heard other had problems upgradings (a few reports from friends and 2 on debian-user), but it went smooth as silk for me. I absolutely do appreciate what they are doing. That doesn't make me willing to let them shirk the responsibilities of a maintainer. >> If I could get both my jobs and the development I do for my >> local charity in hand, I'd pitch in and help. But, wrangling bugs is >> *just* *as* *important* as packaging new versions. It may not be quite as >> "sexy", but it makes for better software, not just more of it. >Sorry, but you have no right to tell other volunteers what they have to do > in their free time. You are free to do 3a) though (regularly). I have the right to air my opinions. I don't have rank or authority in Debian; I am just a user. >> According to the official documents, if you open a bug in the DBTS, you >> should not open one upstream, but leave it up to the maintainer. >Yeah, yeah, but you can spin official documents as much as you want. That > BTS page is not more official than me telling you how things work > currently. If you aren't willing to follow the official documents why should anyone else? If you want official documentation to change, there are established procedures for that. You shouldn't ignore them or change them by fiat just because they don't serve your purposes right now. > If you want an upstream bug to be solved, you better report it > to KDE BTS. Or it won't be solved unless another user reports it upstream > (as simple as that). How is a non-technical Debian user supposed to know if a bug is Debian- specific or not without installing a different distribution? They know they got the software from Debian and it is broken, they should be able to file their bug with Debian. Maintainers should be prepared to forward a bug if need be. Won't someone please think of the users? >> Last time I took it on myself to update bugs, I got some fairly stern >> emails indicating that changes need to go through the maintainers, but I >> am willing to help. >So I say, HELP HELP HELP. Nobody is going to object. Will do. -- Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =. bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_)) ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-' http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
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