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Re: Will KDE make it into Woody?

On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:07:05PM -0800, tluxt2@yahoo.com wrote:
> --- Petter Reinholdtsen <pere@hungry.com> wrote:
> > 
> > The current status of KDE in Woody is less then perfect.  kdenetwork
> > ...
> > I'm getting worried that the KDE not will make it into Woody.  The
> > release maintainer have already started to remove buggy packages from
> > Woody, and several of the KDE packages will -- probably -- get new
> > bugs registered when they finally compile on all the required
> > platforms.
> > 
> > Do I have reason to worry or should I just relax?
> I wish to 2nd Petter's question/concern.  And, also make a few suggestions.
> I don't have time to explain this in the detail I'd like to, at this time, but
> in brief:
> Chris Cheney,
> I, as usual, applaud your goals & effort to pakage KDE for Debian.  But, there
> is an area in which I conclude your results or values are badly in disagreement
> with what I believe the KDE packager should do.
> KDE is a _very_ important set of functionality for the free sw community.  That
> importance sets this packaging job into a whole different category than less
> used/crucial packages.  
> In particular, I believe packaging such an important set of sw carries the
> responsibility to be extra communicative to the user community about the
> packagers' plans and time estimates (because the unavailability of this sw
> affects so many people, and in very important ways).  By not being very clear
> about what you are intending to do with KDE, and providing a detailed,
> realistic estimate of by when you think you will have it done, you are
> prohibiting those _many_ people from making informed plans about KDE in their
> lives.

Oh, they're being prohibited from making informed plans about KDE in
their lives! Shit, they must be shattered! Poor darlings.

> The requirement to do this comes out of Part 4 of Debian's
> "Social Contract" with the Free Software Community:
> 4) Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software 
> "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software community.
> We will place their interests first in our priorities."
> In this case, their interest is, more than just having KDE packaged, to be
> informed about what & when various aspects of the packaging will occur, so they
> can plan properly.  (The KDE project, itself, is truly excellent at doing
> that.)

No, the number 1 priority is the maintainer's personal life. Give Chris
a break, he's a busy man. He's also doing a fucking good job. Excuse my
French, but it's very very hard to maintain KDE, and I think Chris is
doing an outstanding job.

> As you know, I have posted status requests on this topic several times, [and
> you have responded a few times - thanks.  :)  ].  As I've said before: I'm sure
> you're very busy, and I know this will take some (I suspect & hope small) time
> and effort.  But I really think you should make a post like this at least once
> a week.
> [Something like: (readers note: I have _no_ idea what the dates & milestones
>                   would really be.)
> "Here's what I conclude needs to be done (& by when):
> 2/25-create the metapackaging scheme
> 2/28-package the individual metapackages
> 3/1 -create the kde metapackage
> 3/2 -alpla test
> 3/3 -release the packages
> 3/8 -beta test
> 3/10-fix bugs
> 3/11-re-release the fixed packages
> ..."
> ]

It's ready when it's ready when it's ready. Personal circumstances
disrupted my plans to hack on KDE this weekend, throwing out the KDE3
debs another few days.

> This will benefit not just the users trying to plan their KDE useage
> activities, but also allow others with the ability to contribute to packaging
> KDE, or fixing bugs, etc, to know when & where their skills might be needed, so
> that they, too, could help contribute to the development & progress of KDE in
> Debian.

Are you offering help? Few are ... there have only been a handful of
people who have offered me help and then followed through.

> (There has already been at least one unsolicited offer from someone, in
> response to one of my earlier status requests.  I suspect, Chris, that there
> are others reading this list who'd be glad to help you, if only they knew how
> they could.)  

Ask how.

> Potentially having KDE 2.2 miss being included in the initial release of Woody
> would be, IMO, a _very_ unfortunate occurance.

Yes, it would.

> Daniel Stone (and anyone else capable of assisting in the creation of the KDE
> 2.2 packages):  I certainly wouldn't _tell_ you (or any packager) how to spend
> your time.  But I do stronly provide you my encouragement to, if your abilities
> permit, have you devote any time you're putting into packaging KDE 3 for Debian
> into doing what you can to ensure KDE 2.2 is ready to be released with the
> initial Woody release.

I will not devote time to KDE 2.2 unless Chris asks me to; upon such a
request, KDE3 will immediately go on the backburner in favour of KDE2.2.

> Thanks everyone, and good luck on getting KDE 2.2 packaged for inclusion in the
> Woody release.  :)

I suggest you put your proverbial money where your mouth is and start
helping out.

Daniel Stone						    <daniel@sfarc.net>
<jql> Humans are cat dildos.

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