On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 10:07:05PM -0800, tluxt2@yahoo.com wrote: > --- Petter Reinholdtsen <pere@hungry.com> wrote: > > > > The current status of KDE in Woody is less then perfect. kdenetwork > > ... > > I'm getting worried that the KDE not will make it into Woody. The > > release maintainer have already started to remove buggy packages from > > Woody, and several of the KDE packages will -- probably -- get new > > bugs registered when they finally compile on all the required > > platforms. > > > > Do I have reason to worry or should I just relax? > > I wish to 2nd Petter's question/concern. And, also make a few suggestions. > > I don't have time to explain this in the detail I'd like to, at this time, but > in brief: > > Chris Cheney, > > I, as usual, applaud your goals & effort to pakage KDE for Debian. But, there > is an area in which I conclude your results or values are badly in disagreement > with what I believe the KDE packager should do. > > KDE is a _very_ important set of functionality for the free sw community. That > importance sets this packaging job into a whole different category than less > used/crucial packages. > > In particular, I believe packaging such an important set of sw carries the > responsibility to be extra communicative to the user community about the > packagers' plans and time estimates (because the unavailability of this sw > affects so many people, and in very important ways). By not being very clear > about what you are intending to do with KDE, and providing a detailed, > realistic estimate of by when you think you will have it done, you are > prohibiting those _many_ people from making informed plans about KDE in their > lives. Oh, they're being prohibited from making informed plans about KDE in their lives! Shit, they must be shattered! Poor darlings. > The requirement to do this comes out of Part 4 of Debian's > "Social Contract" with the Free Software Community: > 4) Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software > "We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software community. > We will place their interests first in our priorities." > > In this case, their interest is, more than just having KDE packaged, to be > informed about what & when various aspects of the packaging will occur, so they > can plan properly. (The KDE project, itself, is truly excellent at doing > that.) No, the number 1 priority is the maintainer's personal life. Give Chris a break, he's a busy man. He's also doing a fucking good job. Excuse my French, but it's very very hard to maintain KDE, and I think Chris is doing an outstanding job. > As you know, I have posted status requests on this topic several times, [and > you have responded a few times - thanks. :) ]. As I've said before: I'm sure > you're very busy, and I know this will take some (I suspect & hope small) time > and effort. But I really think you should make a post like this at least once > a week. > > [Something like: (readers note: I have _no_ idea what the dates & milestones > would really be.) > "Here's what I conclude needs to be done (& by when): > 2/25-create the metapackaging scheme > 2/28-package the individual metapackages > 3/1 -create the kde metapackage > 3/2 -alpla test > 3/3 -release the packages > 3/8 -beta test > 3/10-fix bugs > 3/11-re-release the fixed packages > ..." > ] It's ready when it's ready when it's ready. Personal circumstances disrupted my plans to hack on KDE this weekend, throwing out the KDE3 debs another few days. > This will benefit not just the users trying to plan their KDE useage > activities, but also allow others with the ability to contribute to packaging > KDE, or fixing bugs, etc, to know when & where their skills might be needed, so > that they, too, could help contribute to the development & progress of KDE in > Debian. Are you offering help? Few are ... there have only been a handful of people who have offered me help and then followed through. > (There has already been at least one unsolicited offer from someone, in > response to one of my earlier status requests. I suspect, Chris, that there > are others reading this list who'd be glad to help you, if only they knew how > they could.) Ask how. > Potentially having KDE 2.2 miss being included in the initial release of Woody > would be, IMO, a _very_ unfortunate occurance. Yes, it would. > Daniel Stone (and anyone else capable of assisting in the creation of the KDE > 2.2 packages): I certainly wouldn't _tell_ you (or any packager) how to spend > your time. But I do stronly provide you my encouragement to, if your abilities > permit, have you devote any time you're putting into packaging KDE 3 for Debian > into doing what you can to ensure KDE 2.2 is ready to be released with the > initial Woody release. I will not devote time to KDE 2.2 unless Chris asks me to; upon such a request, KDE3 will immediately go on the backburner in favour of KDE2.2. > Thanks everyone, and good luck on getting KDE 2.2 packaged for inclusion in the > Woody release. :) I suggest you put your proverbial money where your mouth is and start helping out. -- Daniel Stone <daniel@sfarc.net> <jql> Humans are cat dildos.
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