Re: Fw: Re: junior-programming
Personally, I think anything that you could've done in
BASIC can be done in Python, and almost the same way
if desired. So losing BASIC is not such a bad thing.
(And yes, of course, I have fond memories of BASIC,
too -- but when I think about it, it's really fond
memories of learning programming).
In addition, you can do it "better" using functions
and structured programming, or even OOP if you want.
I have already decided that (unless something better
comes along before then) that this is what I'll start
my kids on (I think they need to be able to read
first, though :) ).
I haven't tried out the Debian Logo package -- I used
Logo in a class with 2nd graders, which went reasonably
well. But it's been so long, I really don't remember
it.
I still haven't warmed up to the Lisp/Scheme/Guile
and friends world, so I know I have biases there. I'm
starting to like the list-processing features in
Python, though.
I do have to say though, that I don't like emacs. (horrors!)
I have no problem with other people using it, but I'd
like to have a choice of editor. I think
emacs is really obtuse to learn -- and as for using
"modes" I've never attempted to use one, but the
sheer overload of menus and bells and whistles in emacs
is just irritating to an experienced user, and
a nightmare of twisty little passages to get lost in
for a new user (not sure which to consider myself here).
In general I'd far rather have to hit right-arrow
a few extra times than try to remember some ctrl-meta-
whatsis to "skip to end of last word in sentence
but one" (obviously I'm exaggerating, but you get
the point).
Anyway, I'd like to see a more minimalist editor
available -- something you can just open up and type
in, with perhaps syntax coloring. I find gVim comes
pretty close, but the interaction between modes and
mouse-based editing is perhaps confusing.
Why should we care what editor -I- want to use when
the kids are the ones using it? Because, of course,
I'm the one they're going to ask for help when they
get stuck! And with emacs, that's going to be
every five minutes. With Vim it'll still be every
fifteen minutes, but at least I'll know the answer. :)
IMHO of course.
Thanks,
Terry
Ben Armstrong wrote:
> The trouble is that seasoned programmers have come to know and hate
> BASIC's faults. We cannot in good conscience recommend BASIC, knowing the
> excellent alternatives there are to it. It is not so much that BASIC is
> impossible for children to learn. Clearly that is not the case. But it
> BASIC encourages all kinds of bad habits. Better to start budding young
> programmers on better designed languages. And in any event, two of the
> languages we have selected that I do know (Logo and Python ... I haven't
> used Scheme before) are, in my estimation, easier to learn than BASIC as
> well.
>
> What I'm trying to say is, I think there is a sentimental attachment that
> forms around BASIC because we look back to the days when it was included
> in the ROMs of our very first PCs. Looking at it objectively, and in
> particular, comparing BASIC with the alternatives, I think we will find
> that there is now no longer a reason to teach BASIC to children.
--
Terry Hancock
hancock@earthlink.net
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