Re: JFORK: Or a reasonable response to the Sun SCSL
Hi Seth,
I think HURD has potential from the fact that it is an operating
system rather than a language. Implementation of the java 2.0 specs may
not be constrained by sun's license, although I'm not sure.
Jim
Seth R Arnold wrote:
>
> John, there is one point you raised I am not sure I agree with:
>
> > 8. A HURD VM is possible due to the nature of its message passing system
> > and would be the most reasonable course to pursue for the development of
> > portable software. This course would basically make Java obsolete, and
> > would allow the use of many types of inexpensive hardware solutions to
> > replace Sun's expensive servers and workstations. This is what they are
> > concerned about.
>
> Java is being taught in many schools, mine included, as the default
> language. Our profs do not mind if we use other languages, but all example
> code, all example everything, the default IDE in the labs, EVERYTHING, is
> java. That makes for a few years of CS students that know nothing but Java.
> (Depressing..)
>
> Java has spread to Mac, to os/2 (I hope), win32, win3.1, free unix,
> commercial unix, practically every platform.
>
> I have a hard time believing that one GNU Hurd VM module will suddenly cause
> all that momentum to go away. (Especially, if Ean has it right -- building a
> VM for Hurd, if built from the java 2.0 specs, is going to fall under the
> Derivitive Works section of SCSL. And be not free.)
>
> Some very nice points, but I doubt the hurd will be able to serve as the
> magic bullet.
>
> comments?
>
> On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 05:44:56PM -0500, John Foster wrote:
> > I have been watching this thread for some time and feel that some
> > reality is in order for anyone interested in this subject.
> >
> > My 2 cents worth:
> >
> > 1. Sun and all other commercial ventures exist solely for the purpose of
> > making money. They will sometimes do some things that seem to be for the
> > "good of mankind", but those things generally have some "lucrative"
> > aspect to them (read SCSL).
> >
> > 2. The aspect of making money is not "a bad thing" in itself. The
> > acquisition of profit by using deceptive tactics is "a bad thing".
> > 3. The owner of any original patent/copyright license has the right to
> > alter that patent at will. For instance if Sun decides to not make
> > StarOffice available under the SCSL they do have the right, because they
> > bought it, to make StarOffice a commercial package. They can do so at
> > will.
> >
> > 4. Technically/legally Sun or Microsoft, or AOL and many others, could
> > alter the terms of the current license structures so that "open source"
> > "free" software ceases to exist. If Linas Torvalds decided that the next
> > kernel version of Linux was not to be GPL software, he has the right to
> > do it. Does that shock you? If it does then you need to read up on the
> > U.S. patent and trademark guidelines as they apply to intellectual
> > property, especially software.
> >
> > 5. There is a huge movement in Europe to keep software patents out of
> > the legal system. I do not think they will be successful. However,
> > "THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY ALL INTERESTED PEOPLE WITH REGARD TO SUN'S SCSL
> > AND THE APPLICATION OF IT'S GUIDELINES WILL SET A PRECEDENT FOR YEARS TO
> > COME"
> >
> > 6. In my opinion "the best interests of free open source software will
> > be served by pushing forward with development of the GNU HURD system and
> > the implementation of a HURD Virtual Machine language that has all the
> > capabilities of Java as it is now, but is more likely to remain free.
> >
> > 7. If Debian and all the other Linux communities continue to put forth
> > free software that is portable to all hardware systems they represent a
> > serious threat to all commercial software.
> >
> > 8. A HURD VM is possible due to the nature of its message passing system
> > and would be the most reasonable course to pursue for the development of
> > portable software. This course would basically make Java obsolete, and
> > would allow the use of many types of inexpensive hardware solutions to
> > replace Sun's expensive servers and workstations. This is what they are
> > concerned about.
> >
> > All my best wishes to the people who assist in the "Free Software"
> > movement, and especially to those of you that do the actual development
> > of applications.
> > --
> > John Foster
> > AdVance-Computing Systems
> > jfoster@augustmail.com
> > ICQ# 19460173
> >
> >
> > --
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>
> --
> Seth Arnold | http://www.willamette.edu/~sarnold/
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