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--On July 26, 2006 5:17:28 PM -0700 Paul Johnson <baloo@ursine.ca> wrote:

On Wednesday 26 July 2006 08:00, Juha-Matti Tapio wrote:
On Wed, Jul 26, 2006 at 02:35:59PM +0200, Wojciech Ziniewicz wrote:
> I'm reading this millions of posts about sorbs and don't understand one
> thing.
> How do they earn money ? What's their profit ? What for ?

This thread and some other recent threads tend to be full of
disinformation about sorbs. There have been at least these incorrect

a) Sorbs blocks email (except mail sent to them maybe).
b) Sorbs claims someone is a spammer by listing in DUHL.
c) Sorbs lists IP addresses for low TTL values.
d) Sorbs is breaking the law.
e) Sorbs breaks it's own listing policy.
f) Sorbs DUHL delisting requires payment.
g) Sorbs refuses to delist according to their policy.
h) Sorbs does not delist anyone for any reason.

Which ones are incorrect again?  I don't see any false statements so far.

Because you're not technically clued enough maybe to really understand what SORBs is? I don't know.

I realize the list above is a list of what has been incorrectly claimed, below is atleast some of the reasons why.

a) sorbs publishes a phone book of sorts. using it, or not, is not up to sorbs. they let anyone use it, or read it. the information is accurate to the specification of the requirements, they've made no false claims about what is contained in their listings ever.

b) DUHL != SPAMMer -- heck we often refuse mail directly from known dynamic and consumer IP ranges. This cuts down a lot of spam at little cost. We maintain our own lists though for this, and only the blocks with worst offenders get on it (mostly just the big ISPs cable and DSL ranges as we see problems with them). again, use of sorbs DUHL is up to individual entities, outside of SORBS.

c) just simply isn't true, they do require it to get de-listed (I don't know why precisely, and I don't necessarily agree with it either)


e) not that I've ever seen. I've seen lots of angry claims, usually from people who got onto the lists because they had such a massive spam problem or zombie problem in the past.

f) simply isn't true.

g) again, not true. i've never had any problem getting listings off once the problems were cleaned up, with sorbs or any other list.

h) again, see f and g.

I don't agree with there no-low-TTL-policy but honestly, I've never seen the harm in having a longer TTL, in fact, during DNS server issues that haven't affected any other parts of our hosting operation longer TTLs have saved us issues.

None of these are true (at least no one making these claims has bothered
to provide evidence).

I'm under NDA about that situation still.  Don't construe being legally
unable  to share as a lack of evidence.

Paul Johnson
Email and IM (XMPP & Google Talk): baloo@ursine.ca
Jabber: Because it's time to move forward  http://ursine.ca/Ursine:Jabber

Michael Loftis
Modwest Operations Manager
Powerful, Affordable Web Hosting

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