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Re: (Spamcop) [listadmin@jtsterlings.com: J.T. Sterlings Daily Special

> > As for abuse by USA spammers, its not easy for me to explain to you.
> > I'm half Asian... one of my parents are Asian. I grew up in Asia. I
> > spend half my time in Asia. And I can really say there are 2 things I
> > can see. 1) software mainly written in english... yes, this is a real
> > problem. Not for me... but I have seen my fellow workers and clients
> > struggle with the terminology, etc. trying to understand english
> > manuals. 2) Asian culture tends to be "permissive", as in you are
> > allowed to do virtually anything you want unless you do something bad.
> 1) is indeed a real problem. I'd consider 2) actually a virtue. :)
> > This is one very good reason why, in Asia, people talk more about the
> > "spirit" of the law, rather than the actual law itself. In the long
> > probably every country will end up being forced to have very
> > and extremely large/long USA-style law detailing every little single
> > possible occurance of anything.
> Ha. We face the similar troubles here in Europe -- people here tend to
> be wary of the claim culture with all it's associated legal nonsense.

Agreed. Of course there are reasons why the USA's law has developed into
the huge monster it is now, but that is a bit too off-topic ;-)

> > Asian people believe in giving "face", and that means not limiting or
> > stepping on people's toes if at all possible. Thus many ISPs do not
> > like to or want to force their clients to change mail settings, or cut
> > them off if they run insecure mail servers.
> But in your line of reasoning, if people tend to have a good feel for
> the unwritten rules of society, and what it means to be a good member of
> a community, then it shouldn't be hard for ISPs to get the message
> across to their customers that running open relays just isn't good
> Internet citizenship. In a polite way, without force.

Well, that depends greatly on who is involved. In this situation, you are
talking about the ISP and Client giving face to each other, rather than
ISP giving face to the internet as a whole. I know they should be
considering the internet as "a community", but remember that most of Asia
only recently got access to the internet, and to them it appears extremely
"commercialized" and not "a community" at all. Actually, if a person who
hasn't used the internet before uses it for the first time now (in
whatever country), I think they would feel the internet is some big
shopping market or something like that, and not "a friendly community".

> > I sincerely doubt that Asian companies nor people like to or want to
> > their things abused by foreigners. Think about it... China VS USA...
> > you'll understand what I mean. Thus there is no malicious intent by
> > Chinese sysadmins for leaving open relays, but there IS malicious
> > by USA spammers to abuse Asia.
> Of course these companies don't want that. I'm also not arguing it's
> malicious intent, but it feels a bit like negligence to the Internet
> community. Which is indeed strange considering that people in Asia as
> far as I know tend to be careful NOT to neglect the needs of society / a
> community as a whole.

Again, the above applies. They do not see the internet as "a community",
but rather as... maybe... a big corporation, or perhaps something else
similar, but certainly not "a community". Your point on people in Asia not
neglecting their community is correct, but in this case, they do not see
the internet as a community because they only see the internet as it is
now (commercialized)

> On the other hand, I also doubt that the USA spammers actually have any
> intents whatsoever for any open relay owner. They just take advantage of
> him, without considering anything or anybody, as far as I can see.

Yes, I don't think the spammers have any intent to harm the person
himself. It is just like a robber... he will steal from you, but he does
not want to actually physically hurt you. He probably doesn't know who you
are, or anything about you. He just wants your money. In fact I am quite
sure that most spammers are quite good people in real life... maybe they
donate to charity and all that. Maybe they also see the internet as
"commercialized", rather than "a community".

However, isn't the internet becoming more commercialized? Since it is
becoming more commercialized, can we blame people who treat the internet
as "a big company" and try to abuse it? I am not saying everyone doesn't
like a big company, but in general people do not usually support the "big
bad company", if you know what I mean. But people will support "a

So can we blame people for treating the internet more and more abusively?

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