Re: Fwd: [i18n] Input Method and Fonts improvements for Gutsy
(Dropping pkg-fonts-devel list, as they are not likely interested in
input method discussions. Adding ubuntu-devel list.)
On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 09:05:20AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Daniel Glassey (wdg@debian.org):
> > Hi,
> > I think it would be good to discuss this with Debian folks at well to
> > share their expertise and I think these issues should be addressed for
> > lenny as well.
>
> And, given that this highly involves packages beings installed by
> default, this should be discussed with the D-I team as such default
> installations should be handled by tasksel in Debian.
>
> (please note that Ubuntu does not use tasksel and, therefore,
> solutions suitable for Ubuntu will, there, not be suitable for Debian
> and vice-versa)
Since Debian doesn't have the constraint of the main/universe
separation, Debian can use a very different approach than Ubuntu's. And
AFAIK, on CJK front, etch already has a rather good input method support
in default desktop task installation.
> So, original message by Arne Goetje, forwarded by Daniel Glassey:
>
> > So, for making SCIM the system wide default, the following should be
> > done on the Live CD and in the default installation:
> > 1. install and configure scim and its modules
>
> I think that this should be done by default when installs are done for
> non european languages, at least those that are supported by SCIM
> (CJK? Indic languages? Other Asian languages? Cyrillic?)
For desktop tasks, yes. For others, probably not, since scim pulls in
the whole GTK+ stack. Most other input method packages at least pull in
a lot of X stuff.
> > 2. install im-switch
>
> Ditto
Depends on whether the specific input method package has im-switch
support or not.
> > 2. SCIM modules:
> > The default installed scim module packages are:
> > * scim-modules-table
> > * scim-tables-additional (Russian and Indic IMs)
>
> Could go in the -desktop tasks for Indic and Cyrillic langs
I heard that the Russian input method in there is not really useful for
native speakers. A lot of Indic speakers probably prefer scim-m17n
package instead.
> > I highly recommend, that we put the following packages and their
> > dependencies into the Live CD and the default installation to make it
> > become more useful:
All the following are based on current tasksel SVN trunk, I don't have
time to check etch. But it's probably quite similar -- I don't remember
big changes to existent tasks since etch release.
> > * scim-anthy or scim-prime: Japanese input methods, scim-prime is a
> > dictionary based IM, which has a great advantage over anthy. Although
> > both are widely used in Japan.
>
> Ditto for japanese-desktop
Japanese-desktop depends on uim, but not im-switch. I remember uim has
im-switch support. They probably want to consider that.
> > * scim-chewing: Traditional Chinese phonetic IM, widely used in Taiwan
>
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop (already done, indeed)
Yes, and it depends on im-switch as well.
> > * scim-pinyin: Simplified and Traditional Chinese Pinyin IM, widely
> > used in China and by foreigners in Taiwan. ;)
>
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop and chinese-s-desktop
Native traditional Chinese speakers hardly use Pinyin, so I am not sure
it's justified. Chinese-s-desktop already depends on scim-pinyin and
im-switch.
> > * scim-hangul: As the name says it - Korean.
>
> ditto for korean-desktop
Korean-desktop depends on imhangul and nagi for input method.
> > * scim-tables-zh: additional table based IMs for Simplified and
> > Traditional Chinese, many of them are popular in China, Hong Kong and
> > Taiwan.
>
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop and chinese-s-desktop
Already done.
> > * scim-thai: well, Thai. :)
>
> ditto for thai-desktop
Thai-desktop depends on gtk-im-libthai for input method.
> > * scim-m17n: bridge to the m17n library, which adds a lot of additional
> > IMs, including Latin based ones for the European languages with
> > diacritics. (not everyone likes to fiddle with XKB settings. ;) )
>
> hmmm, seeing this makes me think that, after all, scim could be
> installed by default on all desktop installs, and scim-m17n added to
> *-desktop tasks for Latin-based languages.
Many languages prefer other input methods. Actually now that I'm
thinking about it, I am not even sure SCIM has more than 50% user base
for any language. Some Indic language perhaps, as SCIM may be the only
available one.
> > The following packages may NOT be installed:
> > * scim-uim: BROKEN, will trash the SCIM setup tool. Don't install it.
> > * scim-chinese: old version of scim-pinyin, not compatible with the
> > current scim package; breaks dependency handling.
Just FYI: I replied to this in a mail to ubuntu-devel list. In
summary: at least in Debian, these are not true at all. Both scim-uim
and scim-chinese are perfectly installable and usable in etch as well as
unstable.
Ming, Debian maintainer of scim
2007.08.10
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