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Re: Fwd: [i18n] Input Method and Fonts improvements for Gutsy

(Dropping pkg-fonts-devel list, as they are not likely interested in
input method discussions.  Adding ubuntu-devel list.)

On Tue, Aug 07, 2007 at 09:05:20AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Quoting Daniel Glassey (wdg@debian.org):
> > Hi,
> > I think it would be good to discuss this with Debian folks at well to
> > share their expertise and I think these issues should be addressed for
> > lenny as well.
> And, given that this highly involves packages beings installed by
> default, this should be discussed with the D-I team as such default
> installations should be handled by tasksel in Debian.
> (please note that Ubuntu does not use tasksel and, therefore,
> solutions suitable for Ubuntu will, there, not be suitable for Debian
> and vice-versa)

Since Debian doesn't have the constraint of the main/universe
separation, Debian can use a very different approach than Ubuntu's.  And
AFAIK, on CJK front, etch already has a rather good input method support
in default desktop task installation.

> So, original message by Arne Goetje, forwarded by Daniel Glassey:
> > So, for making SCIM the system wide default, the following should be
> > done on the Live CD and in the default installation:
> > 1. install and configure scim and its modules
> I think that this should be done by default when installs are done for
> non european languages, at least those that are supported by SCIM
> (CJK? Indic languages? Other Asian languages? Cyrillic?)

For desktop tasks, yes.  For others, probably not, since scim pulls in
the whole GTK+ stack.  Most other input method packages at least pull in
a lot of X stuff.

> > 2. install im-switch
> Ditto

Depends on whether the specific input method package has im-switch
support or not.

> > 2. SCIM modules:
> > The default installed scim module packages are:
> >  * scim-modules-table
> >  * scim-tables-additional (Russian and Indic IMs)
> Could go in the -desktop tasks for Indic and Cyrillic langs

I heard that the Russian input method in there is not really useful for
native speakers.  A lot of Indic speakers probably prefer scim-m17n
package instead.

> > I highly recommend, that we put the following packages and their
> > dependencies into the Live CD and the default installation to make it
> > become more useful:

All the following are based on current tasksel SVN trunk, I don't have
time to check etch.  But it's probably quite similar -- I don't remember
big changes to existent tasks since etch release.

> >  * scim-anthy or scim-prime: Japanese input methods, scim-prime is a
> > dictionary based IM, which has a great advantage over anthy. Although
> > both are widely used in Japan.
> Ditto for japanese-desktop

Japanese-desktop depends on uim, but not im-switch.  I remember uim has
im-switch support.  They probably want to consider that.

> >  * scim-chewing: Traditional Chinese phonetic IM, widely used in Taiwan
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop (already done, indeed)

Yes, and it depends on im-switch as well.

> >  * scim-pinyin: Simplified and Traditional Chinese Pinyin IM, widely
> > used in China and by foreigners in Taiwan. ;)
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop and  chinese-s-desktop

Native traditional Chinese speakers hardly use Pinyin, so I am not sure
it's justified.  Chinese-s-desktop already depends on scim-pinyin and

> >  * scim-hangul: As the name says it - Korean.
> ditto for korean-desktop

Korean-desktop depends on imhangul and nagi for input method.

> >  * scim-tables-zh: additional table based IMs for Simplified and
> > Traditional Chinese, many of them are popular in China, Hong Kong and
> > Taiwan.
> ditto for chinese-t-desktop and  chinese-s-desktop

Already done.

> >  * scim-thai: well, Thai. :)
> ditto for thai-desktop

Thai-desktop depends on gtk-im-libthai for input method.

> >  * scim-m17n: bridge to the m17n library, which adds a lot of additional
> >  IMs, including Latin based ones for the European languages with
> > diacritics. (not everyone likes to fiddle with XKB settings. ;) )
> hmmm, seeing this makes me think that, after all, scim could be
> installed by default on all desktop installs, and scim-m17n added to
> *-desktop tasks for Latin-based languages.

Many languages prefer other input methods.  Actually now that I'm
thinking about it, I am not even sure SCIM has more than 50% user base
for any language.  Some Indic language perhaps, as SCIM may be the only
available one.

> > The following packages may NOT be installed:
> >  * scim-uim: BROKEN, will trash the SCIM setup tool. Don't install it.
> >  * scim-chinese: old version of scim-pinyin, not compatible with the
> > current scim package; breaks dependency handling.

Just FYI:  I replied to this in a mail to ubuntu-devel list.  In
summary: at least in Debian, these are not true at all.  Both scim-uim
and scim-chinese are perfectly installable and usable in etch as well as

Ming, Debian maintainer of scim

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