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Re: fixing backspace and delete

On 21 Apr, jdassen@wi.leidenuniv.nl wrote:
>> > later to "\e[3~") and let Ctrl-H to be backspace? Does eg. 'info' work
>> > with your setting?
>> In info both the backspace and delete key will erase to the left
>> (backspace).
> This breaks info's documented interface. In info's help file it says
> :Moving within a node:
> :---------------------
> :  SPC Scroll forward a page.
> :  DEL Scroll backward a page.

No, apparently it does not, the delete key makes the page scroll
backward as it should. It still works. No problems here.

> Not a very intuitive choice of key, I admit. But I don't think this should
> be broken.

I agree, luckily it isn't.

>> Since the arrow keys do not seem to work in info
> Debian's version of info has been patched for the cursor keys to work since
> March 1997.

That's good, yet personally I don't think it's enough reason to take
another approach (maybe patch it again to make the delete key delete?). 
	I feel the time we have is very limited, I'll try to summarize
the problem as I see it. 
	Problems like the one with info is what we can expect. Many 
developers have found ingenious ways (or less ingenious...) to deal with
linux's strange keymapping, which is quite different from the rest of
the UNIX world (that I know of anyway): 
 KEY       linux    VT100  xterm    aixterm  sun  HP/ux  X
 BackSpace C ?      C H    C H      C H     C H  C H    C H
 Delete    E [ 3 ~  C ?    C ?      E [ P   C ?  C ?    C ?

What I am trying to get at is the following:

The good news: 

It's very easy to get the keys right on the console and in xterm
whether we decide for remapping or not (this would already improve the
situation a lot).

The bad news:

Trying to fix everything will probably result in some apps to be broken
(to a degree, e.g. the delete key erases to the left).

The alternatives:

1. Leaving the system keymaps alone (no remapping). This way I don't
think we can get very far, I couldn't get xterm, joe and pico/pine to
work at the same time, fixing one would brake the other (the apps I
mention are examples, I expect there are more apps with similar

2. Remapping the keys. This will put the linux mapping in line with the
rest of the world, and most apps can be configured correctly. In some
apps (info...) BS and DEL will both delete to the left (but DEL will
scroll backward in info). 
	I think this is the way to go, there seem to be no serious
immediate problems, and on the longer term I expect that all apps can
be fixed completely (actually, the reason this approach works well in
most cases is that the apps are supposed to work on other unices as

Any comments?

Regards, Anne

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