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Re: heads up

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:

>    >    Those people who are hacking the GNU Hurd and not playing Hurd
>    >    politics.
>    >
>    > Then you can't mean Debian GNU/Hurd.
>    ?????
> Debian GNU/Hurd is about playing with Hurd politics.
>    Other Debian GNU/Linux people defend their Linux position and start
>    a debate.  This is to be welcomed.
> It is not to be welcomed if they start a debate without having done
> their homework.

It is (unfortunately) normal behaviour for people who belong to a dominant
group not to have done their homework when opening a debate with a
comparatively weak group.  This is a fact of life with applies to politics,
religion, child rearing etc, as well as software.  If such a debate is
opened then there is a chance to educate.  Think of GNU/Linux v MS
debates.  Yes, we should be debating with these people in the hope that
they will end up doing some homework.

>    Provision of GNU/Linux.  Main purpose yes, assumed.  Original
>    purpose yes, see Ian Murdoch's 1994 "The Debian Manifesto".
>    "Debian Constitution" 1999, no - Linux is not mentioned at all.  I
>    do not know the history of Debian's acceptance of GNU Hurd as a
>    non-Linux port.
> I fail to see your point, in 1994 the plan was to make Debian the GNU
> system.  This isn't the plan today and hasn't been since a long time,
> today it is to make Debian GNU/Linux.

Ian Murdoch says in the 1994 Debian Manifesto;  "... create a distribution
that lives up to the Linux name."  References to GNU are clearly referring
to GNU in the context of GNU/Linux.  There is no hint of Debian developing
GNU Hurd.  The use of GNU to refer to GNU Hurd, or if you like GNU/Hurd
can lead to serious historical misinterpretations.

>    >    > I also know that you cannot mean the GNU system, since "we"
>    >    > consists of less people then there are people hacking on the
>    >    > Hurd right now.
>    >
>    >    What do you mean?
>    >
>    > Sorry, I don't understand.
>    ?????
> Once again, I don't understand.  Could you try and explain what you
> wish to communicate or don't understand, instead of typing five
> question marks?

I was still wanting clarification of this comment of yours.

'I also know that you cannot mean the GNU system, since "we"
consists of less people then there are people hacking on the
Hurd right now.'

>    Let the debate continue.  Other participants welcome.
> Let the debate continue by those who know some of the background to
> the issues, participants that do not know the background are not
> welcome.

Educate, inform the ignorant, clarify issues, define the differences et al
with politeness and informed argument.  I repeat, most of the people we
will be debating with will not have done the homework we would like
then to have done.

Aside, as a FLOSS vendor I have learnt this the hard way on the GNU/Linux
- Microsoft interface.


  Philip Charles; 39a Paterson Street, Abbotsford, Dunedin, New Zealand
   +64 3 488 2818        Fax +64 3 488 2875        Mobile 025 267 9420
     philipc@copyleft.co.nz - preferred.          philipc@debian.org
  I sell GNU/Linux & GNU/Hurd CDs & DVDs.   See http://www.copyleft.co.nz

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