Re: please explain in layman terms ...
"layman's terms?" I can try...I will assume, however, that you have some sort
of experience with Linux or other UNIX systems, and partitions. (I assume, in
other words, that you're a 'layman' to the Hurd only and not to installing
operating systems or to UNIX :) )
On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 03:08:36AM +1300, lanz was heard to say:
>
> Debian/gnu/hurd
> ------------------------
> Hi,
>
> 1/.
>
> a) Gnu/grub
> -------------
> I need to know if grub can/will boot Debian/gnu/hurd.
> Is there any sample code/how to specific to compiling grub for this.
Yes. You don't need any special compile options unless I'm greatly confused.
> ie:-
>
> 1 hard-drive only
>
> dos (fat16)/primary-partition 1
> windows (fat32)/primary-partition 2
> Debian/gnu/hurd (mach???)/primary-partition 3
> Swapfile(Swap???mach) /primary-partition 4
>
> Ps: what do i need to compile grub for the hurd and which host env to
> use.
You probably don't need to compile grub at all; there are Debian packages and
I'm sure there must be other binaries floating around. If, however, you really
want to do it, './configure && make' should compile it as usual. You only
need to compile it 'for the Hurd' if you want to run the Grub executable (which
gives you a way to install grub on the boot sector) -- and to do this you can
use the Debian GNU/Hurd package, which is much simpler.
> 2/.
>
> a) Debian/gnu/hurd partitioning appears obscure,therefore which/what is the
> host envirement used,mach i assume,but how do i fdisk,set up a mach
> partition,which is mach,or is mach really linux 83,please explain.
Have you looked at the install guides? They should explain this stuff.
Look around in http://www.debian.org/ports/hurd .
The short answer is that Debian GNU/Hurd uses ext2fs as its filesystem; ext2fs
is partition type 0x83. To format it, do 'mke2fs -o hurd /dev/hd??' in Linux
(BSD too, maybe) where hd?? is the disk you want to put a filesystem on.
It's also worth noting that Mach has (so far as I know :) ) nothing to do with
the filesystems; part of the point of the Hurd is to put stuff like filesystems
outside the core kernel. The ext2fs program handles the filesystem. (the
question then arises, how is ext2fs loaded? I actually don't know. :) )
> 3/.I assume because the hurd uses a mach microkernel i could also switch
> micro-kernels in the root area/configure to boot another os on the same
> partition via loop process,like linux,or could you explain the
> multiboot
> kernel/principle as this appears to be a way to use the oskit multiboot
> kernels / micro kernels to run more than one os in same partition,or am
> i wrong.I tried reading cs.utag.edu info and debian info and mach info
> but
> as i'm new to all this i need a layman to generalize/explain/simplify
> all???
I don't know much about this myself, and I'm having some trouble understanding
your question, sorry :(
But currently the Hurd only supports Mach; you can't use another microkernel.
I know that you can run the Hurd as a process within the Hurd, but I'm not sure
what you're asking beyond that. It is possible to tell the Hurd to have its
root node be a subdirectory of some other filesystem, so you can have a Hurd
system within an existing ext2fs partition (like a chrooted environment, sort
of). Is this what you wanted to know?
> 4/.I know the mach micro-kernel used is a multi-server base as opposed to
> current linux kernel which appear single server,does this mean this
> mach
> mico-kernel runs more than one server on one computer system per se.
> How does the oskit mach multiboot kernel differ and/or can this also be
> used,how and in what case situation for example.
Hmmm. I think that some of the stuff I read said that this was planned for
the future. I think they're trying to get it to stop falling over and eating
its filesystems first :)
> 5/Does debian/gnu/hurd run linux programs and how does it manage linux
> ext2 overall,and does anything linux need to be in a seperate partition
> or directory etc.
Well, ext2 is its native filesystem. You can run the Hurd from a file within
a filesystem (like a loopback mount) or from a subdirectory within the
filesystem. I don't remember the incantations at the moment..check the list
archives or wait for a Hurd god to reply to you (it should happen soon, they
read this list a lot) It doesn't involve drawing strange diagrams in chalk on
the floor or sacrificing chickens, though.
I'm curious about Linux binaries, actually. I originally thought there was
simply no chance it would run them; however, it occurs to me now that the only
real difference between the platforms is in libc and possibly some other
low-level libraries. As far as I know, they both use the same executable format
and have the same interfaces exported by libc. So Linux programs that don't
do weird things like assembly-level syscalls or /proc access might actually
work. (hmm, ldd on a Hurd binary gives me "invalid dynamic linker option" :(
So I guess it isn't using ELF? file says /gnu/bin/ls is ELF. Hmm.) But this
is all total speculation and could be complete nonsense.
Note that although Linux *binaries* will not run on the Hurd, Linux *programs*
will. Often this is simply a matter of recompiling, although sometimes bad
stuff in the code has to be fixed or hacked around. Also, many Debian programs
will now compile in unaldulterated form on the Hurd (I don't know how many,
though. Do you have a figure, Marcus?) and there are precompiled packages
of them available. apt does not, unfortunately, work on the Hurd yet, but
dpkg-ftp (the previous automated download/install system in Debian) has been
reported to work, I believe. So installing stuff should be easy (there's just
not quite as much to run)
> Thanks(in advance) / (excuse my ignorance/newbie/making the shift from
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> win95)
^^^^^
No offense, but you might be better off trying (Debian GNU/) Linux first. The
Hurd currently is not really usable for anything other than working on the
Hurd :) Well, that's not strictly true -- you can read your mail on it, if it
sees your network card (no PPP support), but performance is not optimal and it
crashes sometimes. If you haven't used anything but Win95 I think probably
getting a good feel for Linux first is a very good idea. The Hurd, when it's
working, is quite similar to Linux (only with cooler features :) ) from a
user's perspective, so experience with Linux will be easily transferable once
it actually starts working. Especially if you learn to use the Debian system :)
Daniel
--
Anything that can go wrong, wfortune: segmentation fault, core dumped
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