Re: Debian and GNOME, partnership with Helixcode?
On Tue, Mar 14, 2000 at 06:29:06PM -0500, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
>
> [Disclaimer: I am an avid KDE user though not (yet) a developer]
>
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Javier Fdz-Sanguino Pen~a wrote:
>
> >
> > I assisted today to a conference by Miguel de Icaza here in Madrid,
> > it seems he is running a new business namde Helixcode
> > (http://www.helixcode.com) which will be working for GNOME. In the
> > conference he said that the GNOME developers do not want to make debian
> > packages because "they are too difficult".
>
> Is Miguel unlucky in the kind of press he gets or just a walking FUD
> machine? Certainly to this observer he seems to make more
> uninformed/inflammatory remarks than your average free software
> personality.
That's flamebait: Karma -1 ;)
(I never meet Miguel so no comment)
>
> > 2.- Maybe Debian could do something in order to make easier for GNOME
> > developers to build Debian packages... where is really the barrier for
> > making Debian packages?
> >
>
> The KDE packages in CVS contain Debian directories. They are not always
> perfect but allow anyone tracking KDE development to build packages. So
> for me it doesn't matter that KDE snapshots aren't available directly from
> Debian. I can make my own.
No, that's clearly not enough!
Packaging for a distribution is not as simple as it seems.
I always prefer to keep the debian directory separate from
the original package, which permits me to make debian revisions
without affecting the release cycle of the program itself. Also,
as Jason pointed out, having the debian tree is not enough to
for a source to be considered a debian package; it should also
well integrated into a Debian environment. For example, I try
KDevelop not a long time ago. When I run it, it asked me a lot
of questions about where *its* files (like documentation) are
installed, then try to install things under /usr/local then stop
functionning properly. Yes, I could surely repair it
but a well-behave debian package should mostly be ready to be
used after installations, with only system and user specific
configuration needed to be done (good default should be
provided when possible). So for me, KDevelop wasn't debianized.
It simply used the Debian tools to compile itself and create
a compatible binary archives, not a true .deb files.
>
> That's all that needs to be done with Gnome.
>
> > 3.- Debian possibly needs more promotion regarding people in Helix, thy seem
> > to be working with RedHat and making their own packages instead of using
> > Debian and the packages already available!
> >
>
> There seems to be a lack of communication. Either the Debian packagers
> are not contributing their work upstream or the Gnome hackers are refusing
> to take it. I'm sure neither group really wants that.
See my comment previously. I really think that if a developer can't
follow closely a distribution, she should let the distribution maintainers
do the work. However, I'ld like to see a standard meta-info files about
the package, which had informations necessary to create a packages, like
compilation commands, files (including informations like documentation,
binary or data), menu entries (means execution), name, author, copyright
file, changelog files, daemon, etc... This will really help to create more
package and even an automated tools (just like autoconf) that generate
everything needed according to your installation. I'm not sure if it's
feasible but I'ld thought that a tool like autoconf wasn't possible too
if I doesn't use it so often ;)
>
> > How about talking with Helix to become a Helix DesktopPartner? (see
> > http://www.helixcode.com/desktop/partners.php3)
> >
>
> Bad idea. Individual developers can and probably should work with Helix
> etc. but Debian as a project should not take a stand for or against any
> desktop until one clearly emerges as the winner. (and when and if it
> does, it will be KDE ha ha.)
Sorry, I don't see the point to have only one winner?
>
> Btw Why is this on private?
Nothing private for my comments, feel free to cite me publicly.
>
> --
> Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@debian.org>
>
>
--
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Fabien Ninoles Chevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers
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