On 03/02/14 10:31, Neil Williams wrote: > There are point releases of stable and oldstable coming up soon and I > am reconsidering the status of Emdebian Grip. > > Point releases take a lot of time to organise in Grip - typically an > entire weekend, so some have already been missed. There are several > reasons for this: > > 0: There is no automated migration of packages into testing or > proposed-updates. Having two separate update processes uploading to the > same archive is problematic. > > 1: It doesn't make much sense to have the newest packages in unstable > and stable, so testing needs to be updated before the point release can > be prepared. If we ignore testing, why retain stable updates at all? > Testing is the next stable. > > 2: I'm finding I have less time to spend on manually fixing testing. It > always takes the same amount of time and the delays in implementing PPA > support in Debian are persisting. > > 3: I'm seeing almost no discussion on this list or on IRC about Grip - > now this could be "no news is good news" but I *know* there are > dependency problems in unstable and testing from time to time (the > daily processing sends me a lot of email) but nobody mentions it. There > are a lot of complaints about the toolchain situation but as I have > reduced amounts of time for Grip, my toolchain time is nigh on zero. > > 4: I've stopped needing to use Grip in any active manner. My work now > concentrates on ARMv7 and later, where storage is simply not a concern. > Most of the ARM devices I now use and care about support both 64Gb SD > and SATA. > > 5: The only "maintained" suite in Grip is unstable - where the > maintenance involves automated scripts which are principally aimed at > the full Debian integration which is still delayed. > > Riku commented, when Grip was first announced, that storage was not > going to remain the principle problem for Emdebian systems and the > availability and affordability of 64Gb SD cards means that this is now > the reality. > That has been true for a while. Anything that can use decent secondary storage can probably live with full-fat Debian. Only systems with limited relatively fast local storage are at risk - Balloon3 is a good example - the USB is 1.x and MMC is slow with bursty performance making raw NAND the only viable solution for the rootfs. Not clear what size of user base would want Jessie. Podpoint might care? > Emdebian Grip has no role in "resource limited" deployments other than > reducing the storage requirements, so if the ARM boards currently in > active usage have no practical storage limits, it is time to reconsider > the work involved in maintaining Emdebian Grip. (Other architectures > were added to Grip simply because we could, there never was any > particular use case for architectures other than armel. Most armhf > devices had already moved away from storage constraints. Reducing the > number of architectures in Grip would not reduce the complexity of the > update process at all.) > > If you have interest in retaining Grip *and are prepared to provide > some solutions to the issues above* then say so here. Otherwise, > neither testing not point releases will get updates and we then ought > to consider if unstable is worth retaining. > Nick
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